U.S. rejects ANTIGUA position on gaming issue

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>US rejects Antigua position on gaming issue

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>Tuesday April 25 2006
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by Patricia Campbell---Antigua Sun


The United States is now arguing that it is in compliance with the WTO ruling that it should adjust its discriminatory trade regulations which restrict the access by Antigua-based gaming companies to the US market.
The US is now claiming that Antigua & Barbuda has misunderstood the WTO ruling. This is coming only a year after the WTO’s Dispute Settlement Body (DSB) ground-breaking decision in Antigua & Barbuda’s favour.
The US raised the hackles of the government of Antigua & Barbuda and its supporters in Caricom earlier this month, when America failed to amend legislation ahead of the 3 April compliance deadline set by the DSB last year.
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It did little to soothe relations with Antigua & Barbuda at last week’s meeting of the DSB when the US Ambassador to the WTO, Peter Allgeier, stated “compliance with the recommendations and rulings of the DSB in this dispute relates exclusively to the sole point of whether the United States is now able to show that relevant US laws do not discriminate against foreign suppliers of remote gambling on horse racing. US laws do not discriminate, and we can show this.”
Allegeir stated categorically “the United States is in compliance with the recommendations and rulings of the DSB in this dispute.”
He went on to state the US government is aware, based on public statements, that Antigua & Barbuda’s understanding of the findings of the DSB in the dispute differs from America’s.
“We believe that understanding is incorrect, and that Antigua’s misreading of the results of this dispute has fostered misperceptions concerning their implications.”
He reiterated the US’ position that since the restrictive legislation deals with “an issue of public morals and public order” it falls under an exception under the General Agreement in Trade and Services (GATS).
He further contended that the only outstanding issue recognised by the DSB relates to horse racing, quoting a statement from the WTO’s Appellate Body that “the only inconsistency… stems from the fact that the United States did not demonstrate that the prohibition embodied in the measures at issue applies to both foreign and domestic suppliers of remote gambling services, notwithstanding the [Interstate Horseracing Act]....” and a ruling from the DSB that the US had not “shown, in the light of the Interstate Horseracing Act” the non-discriminatory application of the relevant measures.
“Notwithstanding any assertions to the contrary, this question concerning horse racing is the only issue,” Allgeier said.
He concluded his statement on the dispute with Antigua & Barbuda by stating that US criminal statutes prohibit the interstate transmission of bets or wagers, including wagers on horse races and that the US Department of Justice is currently undertaking a civil investigation relating to a potential violation of law regarding this activity.
“We hope that this explanation puts to rest any lingering misperceptions of the rulings and recommendations that the DSB in fact adopted in this dispute,” he said.
In response, Antigua & Barbuda’s Ambassador to the WTO Dr. John Ashe took issue with the US’ suggestion that its compliance “is in fact no different to the position which was raised during the course of the proceedings and found unpersuasive by both the panel and the Appellate Body.”
The next step in the dispute process will be for Antigua & Barbuda to invoke an Article 21.5 compliance panel.
This three member WTO panel will conduct an evaluation of the relevant US legislation and examine the extent to which they have been brought into compliance.
This panel is usually called on to examine legislative changes for compliance. In this case, the US has not made recommended changes, but has essentially claimed that existing laws already comply with WTO standards and the ruling of the DSB.

Playing Devils Advocate

for a minute. I love this country and served proudly for over 20 yrs. BUT, just look at it from the world`s perspective, i.e. our arrogance re. this and the Keota (sp) treaty. Just because we are the richest, most powerful, and in most cases bevevolent country on the planet, doesn`t mean we are ALWAYS right. Or have the ethical right to impose our will on others. As the idiot in the WH is learning at the expense of our brave young men & women, Democracy is not for everyone. And if there`s no room any longer for dissent then we have lost our moral compass.

It's exactly what I expected.

The US seems to think it's laws and culture trump those of the rest of the world.

Well hopefully we'll soon see a direct ruling from WTO on whether current US laws are in compliance with the ruling. Then we can see what the next bogus U.S. argument will be.

D2bets said:

Well hopefully we'll soon see a direct ruling from WTO on whether current US laws are in compliance with the ruling. Then we can see what the next bogus U.S. argument will be.

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No shit

I hate to bring this up. But it's clear that one thing and one thing ONLY could save the US in this argument. I think you know what that is. In the article at the top it states that the US Justice Dept is currently looking at internet wagering on horses. IF -GOD FORBID--The US Justice Dept says that the activity is illegal and that YouBet and others in the US that offer this currently MUST Close immediately to be in compliance.
Hey--I don't think (or hope not anyway that will happen) but it's the ONLY way the US can save face here before the entire world as I see it.

What do you think?

silver7 said:

for a minute. I love this country and served proudly for over 20 yrs. BUT, just look at it from the world`s perspective, i.e. our arrogance re. this and the Keota (sp) treaty. Just because we are the richest, most powerful, and in most cases bevevolent country on the planet, doesn`t mean we are ALWAYS right. Or have the ethical right to impose our will on others. As the idiot in the WH is learning at the expense of our brave young men & women, Democracy is not for everyone. And if there`s no room any longer for dissent then we have lost our moral compass.

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Silver, my Mature RX Brother, you have hit the hammer on the nail! Beware of someone that wraps himself in the flag and waves the Bible. They usually have something to hide. LT

silver7 said:

for a minute. I love this country and served proudly for over 20 yrs. BUT, just look at it from the world`s perspective, i.e. our arrogance re. this and the Keota (sp) treaty. Just because we are the richest, most powerful, and in most cases bevevolent country on the planet, doesn`t mean we are ALWAYS right. Or have the ethical right to impose our will on others. As the idiot in the WH is learning at the expense of our brave young men & women, Democracy is not for everyone. And if there`s no room any longer for dissent then we have lost our moral compass.

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Until the price of gasoline went through the roof, you would have been called a traitor in the political wing. Now , even those staunch righties are starting to figure out that the USA under GWB is full of S H I #!

Sorry guys but I said this would happen the day the ruling in favor of Antigua was originally announced. Nothing is going to happen, Antigua cannot do anything remotely threatening to the US. The US is just going to continue acting like the child that screams "blah blah blah" as someone is talking to it. Now lets all go back to what we were doing, making bets online, on the phone, on our cell phones, etc. and contininuing about our business because for all its moralistic talk, the US has shown almost no interest in enforcing laws against offshore betting. All they have done is shaken down a few unfortunate media companies for millions of dollars as if they learned their tactics from the mob. La de da de da. No matter what these silly buffoons say or do, or what stupid carved up law they pass, they have not and will continue to not interfere with what we all enjoy doing.

Bill,

the government has shown time and time again they will grossly exploit any laws on the book as they see fit. For instance he Patriot act was used by the feds to raid a mob owned strip club in Vegas they couldnt get a warrant on. Thru the Patriot Act, no warrant needed. They went in seized cash, credit card records and all computers.

Please tell me why they would want to arrest you and the millions of others who bet on sports? When anyone can give me a good answer to that, I'll change my tune.

because like the nuts trying to pass these laws, once they are on the books, any prosecutor with a "get tough on crime" or "get tough on gambling" agenda can use them as they see fit.

look at California, read something about the bizarre 3 strikes and your out law enforcement. It was supposed to put very dangerous felons away for good. "Get tough" prosecutors grossly misuse it.

example:

some guy at age 22 in Nevada steals $600 worth of stereo equipment. Felony theft.

at age 30 in Los Angeles he gets in a bar fight while drunk and beats someone up and gets a second felony conviction.

at age 36 in Los Angeles he steals a piece of pizza from an Italian restaurant.

Under the California 3 strikes and your out law, the first felony in Nevada carries over. Then the bar fight felony, thats two.

Stealing a piece of pizza is not a felony, but an obscure law was already on the California books that if someone has previously been convicted of a felony, then commits the same crime ( theft in my example) the prosecutor, at his whim, can decide to charge the crime as a felony instead of a misdemeanor.

So this 36 year old guy can get LIFE IN PRISON in a California State Penitentary. As absurd as this sounds, it is happening. Guys are getting LIFE in prison for things like stealing a piece of pizza, stealing a pack of batties, stealing a bike, etc.

The absurd punishment and the COST to the taxpayers MAKE NO SENSE at all. But " Get tough on crime" prosecutors use these types of cases to win re-election with their voters.

Naturally California prisons are filled beyond the top of the brim, but the madness doesnt stop.

I'm pretty sure our government wants to put everyone in jail, it sure seems that way. We have by far the largest jail population of any country and its going up at a high rate

Sorry man, weak argument. They might make a show of someone like they did to Jay C, but it surely won't be widespread. These are people that vote for these idiots, they start throwing the book at us and they won't be in office for long.

This puts about as much fear into me as the local sheriff coming out and saying from now on all speed limits will be enforced vigorously. They would write tickets for about 2 hours on one day and then back to business as usual.

As long as you don't flaunt the law and make the enforcers look bad, they leave you alone in this sort of "crime". Even in Arizona they admitted as much. They put up the camera enforcement of speed limits in Tempe and Scottsdale, but with the caveat that tickets are only given for cars going 76mph or more in a 65 zone on the freeway. Same thing with the gambling, they will say as long as you do it quietly and don't do things publicly that make it look like we aren't doing our jobs then we will let it slide. So if all the betting is done offshore where it is out of sight, then nothing is going to happen to either side of the transaction.

Mr. Smith said:

because like the nuts trying to pass these laws, once they are on the books, any prosecutor with a "get tough on crime" or "get tough on gambling" agenda can use them as they see fit.

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You're exactly right. FU##ing RICO and money laundering are thrown at you like candy now.

Who is getting these things thrown at them Capn? I don't know a single soul who has been charged with any crimes beyond DUIs and other alcohol related stuff and believe me I know a TON of gamblers who are flaunting these laws.

I know the US has no fear of Antigua or Barbuda in this matter, but the idea of the WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION bringing charges against the US in a public forum seems likely to me as long as the US ALLOWS internet horse wagering.
The very idea of winning a argument in the WTO mean that TINY little Antigua has as much muscle as a powerfull United States. With that being a fact AND with the fact that it is LEGAL in about 40 US states to place a horse wager online---I doubt we've heard the last of this. I HOPE NOT anyway!

WildBill said:

Who is getting these things thrown at them Capn? I don't know a single soul who has been charged with any crimes beyond DUIs and other alcohol related stuff and believe me I know a TON of gamblers who are flaunting these laws.

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How many guys being prosecuted by the feds have not had RICO and money laundering charges added? Everyone I know.

silver7 said:

BUT, just look at it from the world`s perspective, i.e. our arrogance

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You could have stopped there & you are dead on. The US couldn't give a flying F what the WTO rules-they're going to ignore it or tie it up in court until they find a way to get around it.

Does anyone really think that the US has any intention of complying with anything? Hell no.

TTinCO said:

You could have stopped there & you are dead on. The US couldn't give a flying F what the WTO rules-they're going to ignore it or tie it up in court until they find a way to get around it.

Does anyone really think that the US has any intention of complying with anything? Hell no.

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Do you know and understand how all the bylaws of the WTO? I don't maybe you do. But I HAVE to think that at some point the US will be FORCED to eitherA. pay a huge sum of $ to Antigua or B. do away with internet wagering in ALL states on horse racing. or C. Allow the Antigua books free access.

How long they can drag this procedure out--I have no idea. But there must be compliance with the WTO or why even be a member of such organization.