Yet Another Silly Baseball Question

Instead of making a pitcher go as far as he can and as usual, make a complete bollocks of it somewhere along the line, why dont they play it like Cricket Teams, use any 5-6 pitchers in any order depending on who their up against and what form their in. :drink:

Don't know much about cricket but the major reason for what you ask is that the baseball season is 162 games long and teams get maybe 1-2 days rest per week, maximum. Therefore taxing your bullpen by using 5-6 guys every night is a great way to ensure that your staff collapses around August.

Its incredible how often coaches wait till a runs been scored before then changing the pitcher, real Fred Carno stuff. Have any of them got the marbles to pre-empt. :drink:

Yes well I tend to agree that a vast majority of baseball managers make decisions strictly by-the-book because if it goes wrong they can say they made the right call and played the numbers. Managers are hesitant to make gutsy calls because of the backlash that awaits them if it backfires.

Baseball is run by a cadre of old men who played in the 50's-70's and believe that their methods are still the best, tried and true. It's reminiscent of a country club...

Best thing for baseball would be new blood, and there is some of it somewhere--mostly in front offices (i.e. Beane, Riccardi, Epstein, etc)--but it's gonna take a pretty serious shift in paradigm for it to filter down into on-field management.

Because he starting pitchers are the only guys who can throw 6-7-8 innings vs MLB hitters and succeed...middle relievers are just hat for a reason, they don't have the arms to pitch (last) more than 2-3 innings on a god day, the closer is a one inning specialist .

BTW any thoughts about the Chelsea/ManU game this Saturday? Looking to see if I should hedge my Mansion freeplay :toast:

cklennon said:

Don't know much about cricket but the major reason for what you ask is that the baseball season is 162 games long and teams get maybe 1-2 days rest per week, maximum. Therefore taxing your bullpen by using 5-6 guys every night is a great way to ensure that your staff collapses around August.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the answer, this must be worth a debate at some quiet point. Im sure Cricket Teams play at least 20X 4-5 Dayers plus 1 day comps and of course the 4-5 dayers are all day 11am to 6pm. Thats starting to make those pitchers sound like nancy boys.:grandmais

Too many TEAMS Winbet.

Before baseball over-expanded each team would have 2 or 3 big time starters who would regularly go 9 innings. Each team has mostly hacks now.

Look at this guy from the Pirtates in 1959:

Harvey Haddix, he threw a perfect game for 12 innings and lost in the 13th.

IP H R ER BB SO
12.2 1 1 1 1 8


Thirty-six consecutive batters were retired by Harvey Haddix before the thirteenth inning — when it all ended on an error, an intentional walk of Hank Aaron, then a double.

Don Hoak, who was charged with the error in the thirteenth inning, said before the game, "That was a pretty good run down (pre-game discussion). If you pitch that way, you'll have a no hitter."

After the game, Lew Burdette told the media, "I called Harvey that night in the visiting clubhouse. I told him 'I realize I got what I wanted, a win, but I'd really give it up because you pitched the greatest game that's ever been pitched in the history of baseball. It was a damned shame you had to lose.' "

funny you mention that Jimmy, I was looking at a box score of a doubleheader I was at in the 1970's and I didn't even remember this but Ross Grimsley pitched well into extra innings....There's no comparison to how pitchers use to pitch compared to today, and using a 4 man rotation as well.

I'll try to find the box score, the reason I remember the game it was like 17-18 innings and it was the first game of a weeknight doubleheader.

here's the game, Grimsley threw 14 innings! Can you imagine today?

<TABLE class=boxed width=410><TBODY><TR><TH class=banner colSpan=2>Game played on Wednesday, September 11, 1974 at Memorial Stadium</TH></TR><TR><TD class=datacol style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 2px" width="50%"><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TH noWrap align=middle>New York Yankees</TH><TH noWrap align=right>ab</TH><TH noWrap align=right> r</TH><TH noWrap align=right> h</TH><TH noWrap align=right>rbi</TH></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>White lf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>4</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Williams lf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>3</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Maddox cf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Murcer rf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Johnson dh</TD><TD noWrap align=right>8</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Munson c</TD><TD noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Nettles 3b</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Chambliss 1b</TD><TD noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Alomar 2b</TD><TD noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Mason ss</TD><TD noWrap align=right>3</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Piniella ph</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Murray pr</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Stanley ss</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Velez ph</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Michael ss</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>May p</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Lyle p</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Upshaw p</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=middle>Totals</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>61</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>14</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD class=datacol style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 2px" width="50%"><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TH noWrap align=middle>Baltimore Orioles</TH><TH noWrap align=right>ab</TH><TH noWrap align=right> r</TH><TH noWrap align=right> h</TH><TH noWrap align=right>rbi</TH></TD><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Belanger ss</TD><TD noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Blair cf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Grich 2b</TD><TD noWrap align=right>5</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Davis dh</TD><TD noWrap align=right>4</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Bumbry pr,dh</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Motton ph,dh</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Powell ph,dh</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Williams 1b</TD><TD noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Baylor lf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Robinson 3b</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Cabell rf</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Etchebarren c</TD><TD noWrap align=right>6</TD><TD noWrap align=right>1</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD noWrap align=right>2</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left>Grimsley p</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Reynolds p</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=left> Jackson p</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD><TD noWrap align=right>0</TD></TR><TR><TD noWrap align=middle>Totals</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>56</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>3</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>10</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=datacol colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=dotright>New York
</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>–</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>14</TD><TD class=num>1</TD></TR><TR><TD class=dotright>Baltimore
</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>1</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>1</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num> </TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>1</TD><TD class=num>–</TD><TD class=num>3</TD><TD class=num>10</TD><TD class=num>0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=7 height=10></TD></TR><TR><TH align=left width="50%"> New York Yankees</TH><TH class=num width=*>IP</TH><TH class=num width="8%">H</TH><TH class=num width="8%">R</TH><TH class=num width="8%">ER</TH><TH class=num width="8%">BB</TH><TH class=num width="8%">SO</TH></TR><TR><TD>May

</TD><TD class=num>9.1</TD><TD class=num>7</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>3</TD><TD class=num>6</TD></TR><TR><TD> Lyle

</TD><TD class=num>6.2</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>1</TD></TR><TR><TD> Upshaw L (1-6)

</TD><TD class=num>0.1</TD><TD class=num>1</TD><TD class=num>1</TD><TD class=num>1</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Totals

</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>16.0</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>10</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>3</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>3</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>7</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>7</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=7 height=10></TD></TR><TR><TH align=left> Baltimore Orioles</TH><TH class=num>IP</TH><TH class=num>H</TH><TH class=num>R</TH><TH class=num>ER</TH><TH class=num>BB</TH><TH class=num>SO</TH></TR><TR><TD>Grimsley

</TD><TD class=num>14.0</TD><TD class=num>12</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>3</TD><TD class=num>5</TD></TR><TR><TD> Reynolds

</TD><TD class=num>0.2</TD><TD class=num>2</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>1</TD></TR><TR><TD> Jackson W (2-4)

</TD><TD class=num>2.1</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>0</TD><TD class=num>3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Totals

</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>17.0</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>14</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>2</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>3</TD><TD class=totalcell noWrap align=right>9</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=7><HR> E–Nettles (19). DP–New York 1, Baltimore 1. PB–Etchebarren (1). 2B–New York Johnson (15,off Grimsley), Baltimore Baylor (17,off May). HR–Baltimore Etchebarren (1,5th inning off May 0 on, 1 out). SH–Maddox (8,off Grimsley); White (8,off Grimsley); Cabell (1,off May); Blair (11,off May); Robinson (5,off Lyle). SF–Nettles (9,off Grimsley). IBB–Murcer (9,by Grimsley); Grich (5,by Lyle). HBP–Grich (18,by May). HBP–May (5,Grich). IBB–Lyle (7,Grich); Grimsley (9,Murcer). U–Art Frantz, Ron Luciano, George Maloney, Jerry Neudecker. T–4:12. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD class=trailer style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-LEFT-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-BOTTOM-WIDTH: 2px; BORDER-RIGHT-WIDTH: 2px" colSpan=2>Baseball Almanac Box Score </TD></TR><!--End Page Body--></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Jimmy,
Thats the exact moaning in Cricket at the Mo, too many games. Soccer also moan, which is a joke as Teams like Man Utd go touring places like Japan , playing 4-5 exhibition games in the short off season. Over recent Years Cricket has obviously looked at Baseball for their 1 Day games as Pinch hitters have been introduced and situational bowlers, but I dont get the feeling its the other way around, which maybe someone is missing out on an advantage of sorts.

This might be the last time anyone threw 14 innings the more I think about it.

I know in cricket they have been saying the Bowlers are doing too much, 10 X 6 balls is as much as they want to do in a Day, thats why I looked at pitchers performances after 60+balls. With in-play games and stick in the mud coaches, theres money to be made, if I can see a problem Im sure everyone can.:drink:

Grimsley had a rubber arm, I remember him.

Situational bowlers are another matter all together though...

He has a rubber arm and a mop of hair

winbet said:

I know in cricket they have been saying the Bowlers are doing too much, 10 X 6 balls is as much as they want to do in a Day,

Click to expand...

Doesn't that have to do with the ball getting scuffed and losing its shine so you want to replace the fast bowlers with the spinners?

Jimmy Hoffa said:

Too many TEAMS Winbet.

Before baseball over-expanded each team would have 2 or 3 big time starters who would regularly go 9 innings. Each team has mostly hacks now.

Look at this guy from the Pirtates in 1959:

Harvey Haddix, he threw a perfect game for 12 innings and lost in the 13th.

IP H R ER BB SO
12.2 1 1 1 1 8


Thirty-six consecutive batters were retired by Harvey Haddix before the thirteenth inning — when it all ended on an error, an intentional walk of Hank Aaron, then a double.

Don Hoak, who was charged with the error in the thirteenth inning, said before the game, "That was a pretty good run down (pre-game discussion). If you pitch that way, you'll have a no hitter."

After the game, Lew Burdette told the media, "I called Harvey that night in the visiting clubhouse. I told him 'I realize I got what I wanted, a win, but I'd really give it up because you pitched the greatest game that's ever been pitched in the history of baseball. It was a damned shame you had to lose.' "

Click to expand...

Just looked at that game again the other day. I would be so pissed if I lost a no hitter in the 13th and ended up getting an L. And the Pirates had TWELVE hits in the game too. Unbelievable. Only more unbelievable pitching feat is Vander Meer's back to back No Hitters

Woody0 said:

Doesn't that have to do with the ball getting scuffed and losing its shine so you want to replace the fast bowlers with the spinners?

Click to expand...

Thats in the equation but it just seems Cricket put more thought into all the variables whereas regardless of circumstances, once a pitcher has been chosen, thats it. For example, atmosphere and humidity have a big effect on the flight of the ball and suit certain throws, I'm sure a Baseball is no different but one pitchers fastball may be better than his team mate. Different Batters are better against certain plays, its just maximising ones advantages.