Basketball fans - please read

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

I would really like to hear from educated basketball fans how they feel Steve Nash could be awarded the MVP award.

I said all along I thought Kobe was the MVP, and I hate Kobe.

Basketball is a game where the players play BOTH offense AND defense. 50% of the game is offense...50% of the game is defense. This isn't like the NFL where you play one or the other. It isn't like baseball where you just field a position and your offensive stats far outweigh playing defense.

How can an MVP only play offense and win an MVP award??? I just don't get it. Nash plays no defense whatsoever. He is a liability on defense. He plays on one end of the floor and even that can be taken away from him as the Clippers have done by forcing him to guard someone in the post. It doesn't allow him to get out on the fast break as much and he has become almost invisible.

Someone please explain to me how someone who only plays at one end of the floor in a run and gun style offense that inflates ALL offensive statistics can be the Most Valuable Player? Granted, he makes their offense go. That's great...that is only HALF the game!!!

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

Nash was MVP last year as we all know, and was actually better statistcially in 2006.

MVP and best player in the league have always been two entirely different things....a little off topic, I forgot Nash played his first two seasons in Phoenix .

I felt like Elton Brand deserved it, and how was he not on NBA first team?

You lost 40 grand on one game???

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
Nash was MVP last year as we all know, and was actually better statistcially in 2006.

MVP and best player in the league have always been two entirely different things....a little off topic, I forgot Nash played his first two seasons in Phoenix .

I felt like Elton Brand deserved it, and how was he not on NBA first team?

You lost 40 grand on one game???

Statistically...I assume you are speaking offensively. But that is 50% of the game.

Look at the problems he causes his team on the defensive end. They are trying to hide him on that end of the floor and it isn't working. They had to stick Shawn Marion on Sam Cassell and put Nash on Ross...what happens? Ross takes him in the post and scores 16 on him in the 1st half...he hadn't scored 16 in a GAME the entire season.

He is a defensive liability. How can that be "most valuable" even on his own team?

oldirtyku · May 19, 2006

Clip...

I said the same thing 20 times. When u get abused by Smush Parker in the post you should NOT be on the MVP ballet.

He is the worst defender on the floor 99% of the time he is out there.

But he is the perfect poster child for the new none hip-hop NBA.

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

So you think the Suns are better off without Nash then right?

Charles Barkley played very little defense, same with Magic Johnson.

oldirtyku · May 19, 2006

There is big difference to being an average defender to being a defensive liability.

Magic and Barkley were far from defensive liabilities.

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
So you think the Suns are better off without Nash then right?

Charles Barkley played very little defense, same with Magic Johnson.

Barkley and Johnson were not 1st team All NBA defenders...but they could defend. Don't discount Barkley's rebounding. He was one of the best rebounders of all time for his size. That is part of playing defense...not allowing 2nd shots.

The same for Magic. He was a beast. A great rebounding point guard and also very difficult to shoot over from the perimeter at 6'9".

What problems does Nash cause on the defensive end? What benefit does he give them defensively? He is literally a liability.

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

oldirtyku said:
Clip...

I said the same thing 20 times. When u get abused by Smush Parker in the post you should NOT be on the MVP ballet.

He is the worst defender on the floor 99% of the time he is out there.

But he is the perfect poster child for the new none hip-hop NBA.

If the NBA could lose the hip hop image it would be a much more appealing product, when hip hop started the NBA went downhill.

Barkley, Malone, Magic, Bird, Thomas, Kareem, Hakeem, Drexler, when they all retired and the hip hop era took over the NBA became garbage

ucking:

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

Clip Joint said:
Barkley and Johnson were not 1st team All NBA defenders...but they could defend. Don't discount Barkley's rebounding. He was one of the best rebounders of all time for his size. That is part of playing defense...not allowing 2nd shots.

The same for Magic. He was a beast. A great rebounding point guard and also very difficult to shoot over from the perimeter at 6'9".

What problems does Nash cause on the defensive end? What benefit does he give them defensively? He is literally a liability.

I wasn't talking about rebounding, of course Barkely was a great rebounder, but both he and Magic were below average on defense, even when they played in NBA Finals.

So answer the question, IYO, the Suns are better off without Nash right?

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
I wasn't talking about rebounding, of course Barkely was a great rebounder, but both he and Magic were below average on defense, even when they played in NBA Finals.

But rebounding is part of playing defense. That was a positive element that Barkley brought to the table defensively. That is a big part for someone playing PF.

Journeyman said:
So answer the question, IYO, the Suns are better off without Nash right?

On the defensive end...absolutely.

I will probably get bashed to no end on this...but I truly believe the Suns are just as good (if not better) when all things are considered when Barbosa is on the floor instead of Nash in this series. He can at least hold his own defensively.

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

Clip Joint said:
But rebounding is part of playing defense. That was a positive element that Barkley brought to the table defensively. That is a big part for someone playing PF.

On the defensive end...absolutely.

I will probably get bashed to no end on this...but I truly believe the Suns are just as good (if not better) when all things are considered when Barbosa is on the floor instead of Nash in this series. He can at least hold his own defensively.

I don't have the stats handy, does anyone know what the Suns record was when Nash was out ? I believe they started losing without him.

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
I don't have the stats handy, does anyone know what the Suns record was when Nash was out ? I believe they started losing without him.

That is probably true...but this is the playoffs. You can't win in the playoffs without playing defense.

Dallas certainly didn't skip a beat without him.

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

Dallas added several key pieces since and Phoenix became a great team once Nash arrived.

Do the Cavs play good defense? Does Dallas play good defense? no and no.

I do agree, in almost every situation defense wins out, this year though, it might not be the case.

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
Dallas added several key pieces since and Phoenix became a great team once Nash arrived.

Do the Cavs play good defense? Does Dallas play good defense? no and no.

I do agree, in almost every situation defense wins out, this year though, it might not be the case.

I disagree...I think Dallas is a great defensive team. The numbers are slightly inflated because they run so much offensively.

I haven't watched the Cavs enough to know about them defensively.

5teamparlay · May 19, 2006

HERE IS THE DEAL:

I heard a few weeks ago The MVP is awarded to the best player on a team with a realistic shot to win it all.

KOBE NO
Le Bron NO
Brand NO

Some of these players turning their teams into teams with realistic shot s now.

Also the vote was OVERWEALMING if you look at first place votes for NASH.

Journeyman · May 19, 2006

Dirk is a below average defender...Finley went by him like a statue and posterized him twice. Dirk is a liability on defense too.

spreadbeater · May 19, 2006

Clip,

I NEVER thought that Nash was the MVP of this league, not this year and not last year. He is obviously a great player, one of the top 10 in the league. But, as you stated, he plays absolutely NO defense. He does not deserve the MVP award. Especially with the season that both Kobe and especially Lebron had this year. I honestly do believe the fact that Nash is a small white player has a ton to do with it. Just think about the fact that if he were black and had the same numbers.....do you think he would have won the MVP? I know the answer! NO.

TescoVee · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
If the NBA could lose the hip hop image it would be a much more appealing product, when hip hop started the NBA went downhill.

Barkley, Malone, Magic, Bird, Thomas, Kareem, Hakeem, Drexler, when they all retired and the hip hop era took over the NBA became garbage

ucking:

i dont think it has to do with hip hop image as it does with guaranteed contracts.
the tail is wagging the dog. the players run this league and that is a terrible thing. they are more isolated from the average person because they make ridiculous amounts of money, are coddled all their lives, surround themselves with "yes" men, and are usauallya lot more immature because they dont have 4 years of college when they make millions
the hip hop element only sells more merch.

ClipJoint · May 19, 2006

Journeyman said:
Dirk is a below average defender...Finley went by him like a statue and posterized him twice. Dirk is a liability on defense too.

Dirk is a below average defender...but far from a liability. He can still defend in the post with his size. He is also a solid rebounder.

They also have 2 above average defensive centers.

royalfan · May 19, 2006

Couldn't agree more Clip. Kobe should have won in a landslide. These dumb ass media people like to go with the 'trendy" play. What a bunch of dumbshits. God bless Nash, love to watch him play and he will be huge game 7, but he is probably the most overrated player I have even seen in any sport.