Could sports be booked like horses ( parimutual) ?

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

I don't see why not. Take the money and distribute it just like they do in a horse race, but it would be like a 2-horse race. Let's say the book takes 2% out of the pool.Maybe a little less than that for bases to maintain a dimeline.

I'm not saying replace the fixed odds, but offer pari-mutual as another way to bet it. The book can't lose. The lines between the 2 ways would be close, at least when they close. The player would essentially be playing the closing line.

You could have the present odds displayed with info on how much is in the pool, no limits would be needed.

It would appeal to those that would normally prefer to bet late but can't because of work or whatever.

Any off price would tend to get adjusted to market conditions.

You'd probably need a big book like Pinny to do it.

It would be very competitive price-wise with hoops or foots, probably best with ML, but PS could work too if you stayed on the opening number.

The book would have to be very trustworthy. You would know your exact price almost instantly once the market closed.

Could it work ?

Fishhead · Jun 15, 2006

Many sports FUTURES are allready done this way Doug.

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

example ?

Fishhead · Jun 15, 2006

Doug said:
example ?

Autobet.us

Love it!

trytrytry · Jun 15, 2006

autobet is a great example. there could be many more however.

Fishhead · Jun 15, 2006

Fishhead said:
Autobet.us

Love it!

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="95%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>How does pari-mutuel wagering work at Autobet.us?

The word comes from the French word, pari-mutuel. "To wager amongst ourselves," is the rough translation. Fans wagering in a pari-mutuel system are wagering against one another, not against the company.

Here's how it works:
When a patron places a wager, that money goes into a betting pool. Each type of wager has its own betting pool. Autobet.US takes a small commission or "takeout" for handling the wagers. The money remaining in each pool is returned to the bettors in the form of winnings. The more bettors that bet on a particular driver or betting entry (quinella or superfecta combination), the less that entry will pay. You may think of it like this. If ten people each bet $10 and they all throw their names in a hat, the winner will receive $100.00. This is equal to the $10 he bet plus the $90.00 from the losers. In this scenario, our odds display would show that you were receiving 9-1 on you bet. Now if instead, we drew two names, each winner would receive $50, or 4-1 on his bet (10$ plus $40 from the losing bets). In essence, this is the way every bet at Autobet.US works. If you bet into the win pool there is 1 winner out of 15 combinations. If you bet into the Top 3 pools there are 3 winners in 15 combinations. The Win and Top 3 pools are the more conservative choices. The payoffs can be big when finding long shots, but for consistently big payoffs, look to the “Exotic Pools,” the, “Quinella,” and the, “Superfecta.” The quinella pool has 1 winner in 105 combinations. The superfecta has one winner in 32,760 combinations.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

makes sense for auto racing.

Labeeb · Jun 15, 2006

I thought they tried thin in Vegas about 5-6 years ago and it was a total failure. I thought I recall Harrah's specifically dealing it. Someone in the biz during that time should know. Can't remember what the take was.

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

take was probably too high, you'd have to deal it fair.

Woody0 · Jun 15, 2006

I recall one online book doing that recently, think it might have been the Greek. Don't remember the sport. Personally I like the fixed odds as betting at gametime on pari-mutuel would drive me crazy.

Fishhead · Jun 15, 2006

The WSEX markets could be thought of as pari-mutual........yes or no?

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

Fishhead said:
The WSEX markets could be thought of as pari-mutual........yes or no?

I say no, you know the price when you buy the contract.

Something like horses, dogs, jai-alai is pari-mutual

You bet Arrieta to win in jai-alai at 8-1, others do also, then it closes 5-2, that's extreme but it happens a lot with small win pools in jai-alai.

To me parimutual means you never know what the pay-off will be until betting is done.

Fishhead · Jun 15, 2006

You are 100% correct Doug

sd2 · Jun 15, 2006

The in-game wagering that some books do, and some Vegas places too I think (will the next play be a pass or a run) is parimutuel.

To make parimutuel for a game result is a horrible idea. The books would love it, of course, all the risk is gone. Like horses, they would enjoy a built-in 15 to 25% edge (the parimutuel take on straight wagers, depending on the state), rather than the slim 4.5% they have on pointspread sports betting.

It's why in Vegas the horse players are comped more than are sports bettors. And why the rebates offshore are more generous for the pony punters than for sports bettors.

In fact, before parimutuel made its appearance in the US (around 1940) all betting was done through on-track bookies - each made his own line on each horse, and you could shop around. The price you got when you paid were your fixed odds.

Nice. That's how the legendary Pittsburgh Phil and others made their fortunes. They couldn't do it today with parimutuel.

BTW, when parimutuel first began here, the takeout was around 5%. Many dedicated horseplayers quit the game when it quickly escalated to 10%. And now, even 10% is a pleasant dream, as some states stick the suckers with over 20% take on straight wagers.

Doug, be careful what you wish for . . .

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

sd2 said:
The in-game wagering that some books do, and some Vegas places too I think (will the next play be a pass or a run) is parimutuel.

To make parimutuel for a game result is a horrible idea. The books would love it, of course, all the risk is gone. Like horses, they would enjoy a built-in 15 to 25% edge (the parimutuel take on straight wagers, depending on the state), rather than the slim 4.5% they have on pointspread sports betting.

It's why in Vegas the horse players are comped more than are sports bettors. And why the rebates offshore are more generous for the pony punters than for sports bettors.

In fact, before parimutuel made its appearance in the US (around 1940) all betting was done through on-track bookies - each made his own line on each horse, and you could shop around. The price you got when you paid were your fixed odds.

Nice. That's how the legendary Pittsburgh Phil and others made their fortunes. They couldn't do it today with parimutuel.

BTW, when parimutuel first began here, the takeout was around 5%. Many dedicated horseplayers quit the game when it quickly escalated to 10%. And now, even 10% is a pleasant dream, as some states stick the suckers with over 20% take on straight wagers.

Doug, be careful what you wish for . . .

I'm not wishing for it, just happened to think of it. The take-out would have to be in the area of 2%. It would co-exist with fixed odds. Few places could even do it, it would probably only work at Pinny to start, and be slow to be accepted.

I could see it being tried, book can't lose.

Next play is pass/ run is parimutual ? People bet this not knowing the payoff ?

Sugarbear · Jun 15, 2006

Yes it was a failure. Leroys led the way with it in conjuction a company in Austraila whos name escapes me. The reason why it failed is baecause you do not know what you are going to get until after the fact.

Joe bettor when he goes to bet wants to know how much he will win first.
A three team parlay pays 6-1 but it may pay more but likely less than that
after the fact. Players cant deal with that. Without knowing what they can win they are not able to have an emotional investment in there wager. How much will I win if I...is an extremly common question. That was the first problem.

The second came when people would start betting into the big odds that were left and then come to find out everyone else in the pool did the same thing thus ruining there payoffs.

It slowly died as Leroys stuck with it a couple of years.

For fast paced events it could work since waiting time is a big factor in the equation in what a player will go for in a parimutal pool.

sd2 · Jun 15, 2006

Sports betting isn't likely to change -- thank the gods for tradition!

If some book began it, and charged a 2% take, and was successful to the point where they got imitators and it was the only game in town, that 2% would go the way of buck a gallon gas.

What I'd like to see is the reverse -- horses being booked like sports. Like a future book, except the future is the next race. A track in Mexico did this for a while, arround 15 years ago, with bookmakers stationed under umbrellas in the track, offering different odds, but unfortunately they abandoned the idea after a time.

Books would love horseracing even more, if the game wasn't so crooked, the ultimate insiders game. Still, with those huge holds, they revel in it.

About 10 years I was sitting in the sports book of the Union Plaza in downtown Vegas. I asked the waitress for an orange juice. She came back and wanted to charge me $3.00. Upon seeing my mouth drop open, she said: "If you were in the race book, it would be free." So, exchanging winks, I moved an aisle over the the racebook, got the juice, and gave her the buck tip.

Yep, the drinks were paid for by the 20% take on straight horse bets, and up to 30% in some states for the exotics. Of course, tht was before all of Nevada dumped their bets into the mutuel pools.

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

I'd say sports has already changed a lot, and will continue to change.

Seems to me horsebetting is in decline with the offshores getting bets not in the pools. I think the future of tracks is dim.

DrunkenHorseplayer · Jun 15, 2006

Any place that booked horses like sports, at least in Las Vegas, would be destroyed rather quickly unless they imposed severe limits and even then they would lose money. Someone tried this about ten or twelve years ago after all the race books in Vegas has gone pari-mutuel and I think they lasted about 30 days.

Doug · Jun 15, 2006

Sport of kings ?

Was that it ?

Could sports be booked like horses ( parimutual) ?

Rx God

Active member

Rx God

Active member

Member

Active member

Rx God

New member

Rx God

New member

Active member

Rx God

Active member

New member

Rx God

Member

New member

Rx God

Rx Member

Rx God

Forum statistics

Share this page