and by probably, you mean 100% SURELY.
Anyway, the reason was the draw, not the coach, not the players. USA actually surprised me, I thought they were worse, I like the game they showed vs Italy and I think that McBride is a decent power forward. Still, there is no next level untill you guys have either a real domestic league or are able to export enough talants.
I like listening to Eric. He's upfront and says what we all want to say about the US performance. He's pissed because first of all he's a fan of the US. So to see them stink it up pissed him off.
Maybe he's right. Maybe Bruce Arena is a great coach to get us qualified but in the World Cup he might not be able to take us forward everytime. I don't see too many WC teams keep their coaches for 2 or 3 world cups. The coach that led Brazil to the 2002 WC is now the coach at Portugal. So even winning coaches need to change.
Really this time I don't know how he could use a single forward for all the games. Most teams used two forwards to create scoring chances. We had one damn goal and like 3 or 4 shots on goal. Pathetic.
Maybe he's right. Maybe Bruce Arena is a great coach to get us qualified but in the World Cup he might not be able to take us forward everytime. I don't see too many WC teams keep their coaches for 2 or 3 world cups. The coach that led Brazil to the 2002 WC is now the coach at Portugal. So even winning coaches need to change.
Really this time I don't know how he could use a single forward for all the games. Most teams used two forwards to create scoring chances. We had one damn goal and like 3 or 4 shots on goal. Pathetic.
Bennyshoe said:
4 shots on goal in 3 games
Compare that to Germany who had 4 goals in one game
compare that to Germany who had 10 shots on goal in one game (their last game)
The US is not even close to the next level.
He's playing with 9 men against Italy, the players are dead tired and he doesn't even use his last substitute. Go figure.
Bennyshoe said:
This is the same Eric Wynalda that didn't think Steve Sampson deserved the blame for the even bigger disaster in 1998? Yeah right. Wynalda is a joke, I pay no attention to him. He has always been an attention whore who got mad when Lalas got more hype before the 1994 WC. One of the best players in US history, but not worth two bits for his opinion.
Look ask real US MNT fans what they believe and we will almost all say Bruce Arena is the greatest coach this country has ever had. That is an indisputable fact. Maybe this time around wasn't what happened before, but so what. Lots of good teams went home after 3 games. I am not going to dwell on that forever. But I am not going to be a jerk like Wynalda and take shots at people.
You want to know what we lack? Defense, plain and simple. Oneywu is a definite talent compared to what we have ever had before and so is Corey Gibbs, but these guys couldn't compete for jobs on most national teams. Blame it on our US mentality of great talents wanting to be offensive studs and a lack of a deep naitonal league. The MLS isn't a bad league, but it still desires to interest American fans. Therefore you don't spend money on bringing in defensive talents. You don't develop them in homegrown ways either. Its really a mess when you think about it.
Bruce can't solve that and he is well within reason in saying US Soccer needs to deal with it. Deeper domestic leagues and getting the MLS to stop focusing so much on developing offense would do wonders for us. However we all have to wonder if it will ever get better. As we have all seen in this forum most Americans yawn at low scoring games. You think the WC is boring, you should watch the EPL. 1-0 and 1-1 games are quite common in England and you don't hear English fans complaining about it.
With that in mind, can we really expect the US to be a world power? Maybe not, but it is really easy to pinpoint the problems. Bad defense and poor support from the midfield is where the US has tremendous upside potential, but I don't have a lot of hope for it coming.
I'm no soccer fanatic but I like to watch the World Cup when it comes around. I saw that interview with Bruce Arena and he was throwing shots at the '98 team saying "some" personalities tore that team apart and various other things about the '98 team. I was guessing it was Eric he was referring to so Eric shot right back at Arena.
Arena may be the best coach the US has ever had, which by our World Cup results isn't saying much, but I think I agree with people when they say he's taken the team as far as they can go.
Again, I'm no soccer expert but like you said WildBill, if offense if supposed to be our strength and our talent is undeveloped on defense then why did we only have 1 striker in the game? Why did we only have 4 shots on goal? Why not game plan around our strength? Seemed like Arena's game plan was to play not to lose instead of playing to win. Ghana seemed to have a better game plan than us. Teams like the Ivory Coast had more goals than us. I find it hard to believe they have better talent. Can we at least get SOME shots on goal? Arena turned our supposed strength into a weakness.
Arena does come across as a smug bastard.
Arena may be the best coach the US has ever had, which by our World Cup results isn't saying much, but I think I agree with people when they say he's taken the team as far as they can go.
Again, I'm no soccer expert but like you said WildBill, if offense if supposed to be our strength and our talent is undeveloped on defense then why did we only have 1 striker in the game? Why did we only have 4 shots on goal? Why not game plan around our strength? Seemed like Arena's game plan was to play not to lose instead of playing to win. Ghana seemed to have a better game plan than us. Teams like the Ivory Coast had more goals than us. I find it hard to believe they have better talent. Can we at least get SOME shots on goal? Arena turned our supposed strength into a weakness.
Arena does come across as a smug bastard.
I don't know why he went with 1 striker either, but can guess its because he just didn't have enough faith in Eddie Johnson yet. Donovan and Beasley have for some reason always been better coming up from the midfield. Where they are listed on the lineup doesn't really reflect what they do on the field. Donovan and Beasley are at fault for being insanely passive more than anything. Add in what appeared to be a less than 100% Reyna and not having John O'Brien and we were not going to get many shots off. You can't blame injuries for the poor showing, but they certainly held us back.
I think Arena deserves some criticism for leaving Twellman off the team. He could have helped out up front. The 4-5-1 formation didn't work.
I agree that '98 was a bigger disaster. Sampson cuts team captain John Harkes and brings in David Regis, who hadn't played in any qualifying games. There was nearly a team mutiny. Lalas doesn't see a minute of playing time and Balboa played the last 10 minutes of the 3rd game. That was a debacle.
I agree that '98 was a bigger disaster. Sampson cuts team captain John Harkes and brings in David Regis, who hadn't played in any qualifying games. There was nearly a team mutiny. Lalas doesn't see a minute of playing time and Balboa played the last 10 minutes of the 3rd game. That was a debacle.
Guys the problem is we need our better athletes playing soccer, which they are not doing...They play basketball and football, if we could ever get some of them to play soccer and then have them train we would be a power, simple as that...
We are also in the training department...Go look at how they do it in Europe and South America... That is why their players are so good... Our training is better and getting better but not anywhere near what they have...
Until we get better athletes and get our training on par of Europe and S. America we will be 2nd rate... Our best players need to go to Europe to train and play, having them stay and playin the MLS is all well and good that they want to grow and support U.S. soccer from home but by having them stay here they are not doing anyone any favors...
If they went abraod to train and play and got their skill level up and played in the World Cup and actually did something then soccer might take off and become bigger here...
We are also in the training department...Go look at how they do it in Europe and South America... That is why their players are so good... Our training is better and getting better but not anywhere near what they have...
Until we get better athletes and get our training on par of Europe and S. America we will be 2nd rate... Our best players need to go to Europe to train and play, having them stay and playin the MLS is all well and good that they want to grow and support U.S. soccer from home but by having them stay here they are not doing anyone any favors...
If they went abraod to train and play and got their skill level up and played in the World Cup and actually did something then soccer might take off and become bigger here...
T Hawk said:
AMEN!!! You hit the nail on the head T Hawk!!!
As far as why he went with one forward...I think it was because like most people he was worried about our suspect defending. I think he thought we could sit back and then on counter-attacks throw some midfielders forward and hopefully score 1-2 goals a game and then just sit back and defend. I too think the Italy game showed what we can do, but we just don't do it consistently...we actually had a real chance to win that game but the ref just totally ruined that game. We need more creativity on offense!!! I think it is time for Arena to step down and he has done a decent job...especially if you look at 2002. I mean, many countries where soccer is huge are just happy to qualify and soccer not even being big here...maybe we have come to expect too much...I mean Holland did not even qualify in 2002 but of course qualifying in Europe is much different than CONCACAF. I thought I heard Arena say something about how he thought it would be "several" world cup's before the U.S. would ever get to the later rounds again??? I guess he doesn't have much faith in the upcoming talent. Good discussion.
What alot of people dont remember is that the US were lucky to make it to the knockout stages in 2002. The US lost to Poland in the final match of that group stage and just got in there. Then beat Mexico a team they know like the back of there hand. There isn't one superstar game changing type player on the US team look at where all the US players play not one plays for a major club team in Europe. Voltitan was right when he said the US clogs up the midfield and hopes to score on a counter attack since that is all they gameplan for. The US has no creative players in the attacking zone and seemed loss near the goal that I would blame Arena for.
It could be 50 years the same way it could be 4.
US won't have the strength to deal with a difficult draw in my lifetime, at the same time, you're perfectly capable of making it trough in a group with 1 european side and a weak south american/african team. So, the most important part about the USA in the WC competition will be the draw, it's pretty much the same for all average teams.
T Hawk said:
I disagree.
I follow the German team like a religion, and let me tell you that the training in Europe is NOTHING like what we see here in the US. Juergen Klinsmann actually learned from US teams about training and practice, and tried to implement that in his team. He got lambasted for it before the Cup - to a point where The Kaiser was also up his ass.
Klinsmann hired American coaches to train his team. He stressed physical fitness and psychological training. He had his team runs laps while pulling tires for an entire practice session and didn't even have them touch a ball.
That sparked chaos in Germany. He used tendency charts, and coached the MENTAL aspect of the game - something totally foreign to Europeans who had always believed in "creativity", not "statistics" nor "physicality".
He said he learned from the NFL that a non-guaranteed contract and competition is what breeds "desire". He knew he didn't have guaranteed contracts on his team, so he started a system on his team where EVERY job (except for Ballack and Klose) was up for grabs. He almost faced a mutiny when he got rid of the captain Kahn and chose Jens Lehman to play goal.
Klinsmann started a system of "attack and defend the middle". The purists in Europe had always said that attacking football wouldn't succeed because of the threat of a counter attack. Klinsmann went to US Womens Team, and used their system. The attack at all times, but when the opposition gets the ball, it is everyone's job to force the ball to the outside. Once the ball goes to the wing, it slows down the fast break and gives players a chance to come back on defense.
The US has a lot of training methods that the Europeans do not know about and do not believe in - and Klinsmann is using it now, so lets not say Bruce Arena didn't have the chance to succeed. He just couldn't do it, and he played scared.
Youth Soccer is still growing very rapidly in the US. I don't think most realize this but youth football,Basketball and Baseball are all on a decline on a % bases in the US. Soccer is still a very young sport here, but expert instruction at the youth level has increased dramatically. Give the 10 year olds of today 12 years of experience and see where the US is in 2018. And yes you have to look out that far.
