Thanks joey but no.
I placed bets on Ukraine "to advance" at about +130 and scalped them straight off at Betfair who had a constant difference of opinion to Pinnacle on this market throughout alot of the match.
Pinnacle settled my bets as "pk" bets after the regulation 90mins. As soon as I saw this I e-mailed their customer services BEFORE the result of the match was known.
Their response was slow (unacceptably slow IMO) and they didn't get back to me before the end of the match. I had the opportunity to replace my $1500.00 +130 bet at +190 but held off as I thought it may make me look like a shot-taker.
In short the bets have been settled as pk and I lost over $1900.00 on the other side of the scalp.
A couple of points
i) I make no apologies for placing scalps, these are not recreational books and welcome high volume action.
ii) Pinnacles "in-running" betting on the world cup has exposed their inexperience at doing soccer in-running. There have been alot of palpable errors that I have held off from betting. Their software has previously accepted a "live betting" bet for $1000.00 which had to be voided as it wasn't clear what it was on. In short what is listed on the screen isn't always what is recorded in the software.
I know I have little to no chance of seeing my funds again but I hope my story serves as a warning to others to check their pending bets after they are placed and see what the software has recorded.
I am not questioning Pinnacles integrity and believe this is out of inexperience rather than anything more sinister. It has wiped out most of my World Cup profit though so naturally I am not happy.
I placed bets on Ukraine "to advance" at about +130 and scalped them straight off at Betfair who had a constant difference of opinion to Pinnacle on this market throughout alot of the match.
Pinnacle settled my bets as "pk" bets after the regulation 90mins. As soon as I saw this I e-mailed their customer services BEFORE the result of the match was known.
Their response was slow (unacceptably slow IMO) and they didn't get back to me before the end of the match. I had the opportunity to replace my $1500.00 +130 bet at +190 but held off as I thought it may make me look like a shot-taker.
In short the bets have been settled as pk and I lost over $1900.00 on the other side of the scalp.
A couple of points
i) I make no apologies for placing scalps, these are not recreational books and welcome high volume action.
ii) Pinnacles "in-running" betting on the world cup has exposed their inexperience at doing soccer in-running. There have been alot of palpable errors that I have held off from betting. Their software has previously accepted a "live betting" bet for $1000.00 which had to be voided as it wasn't clear what it was on. In short what is listed on the screen isn't always what is recorded in the software.
I know I have little to no chance of seeing my funds again but I hope my story serves as a warning to others to check their pending bets after they are placed and see what the software has recorded.
I am not questioning Pinnacles integrity and believe this is out of inexperience rather than anything more sinister. It has wiped out most of my World Cup profit though so naturally I am not happy.
This is what you get when you go to confirm a "to advance" bet
Spain to Advance 27-June-2006 1:50 PM PST
Spread pk for Game -141
Risking 1,410.00 to Win 1,000.00 USD
For those unfamiliar with soccer betting these two underlined statements are contradictory because one line states "Spain to Advance" which is a wager on the winning team and includes extra-time and penalties if required.
The other line "Spread pk for Game" is standard notation for asian handicap bets (pk = 0 ball handicap) and these bets do not include extra-time and penalties and are settled in regulation time only.
This was the problem last night. My "to advance" bet was recorded as a "spread pk for game" bet. They are NOT the same thing if the game goes to extra-time. I have pointed this out to Pinnacle but they don't seem to accept that they have a problem.
Does anyone know if their linesmen know anything about soccer betting or do they just copy the lines off asian books that do??
Spain to Advance 27-June-2006 1:50 PM PST
Spread pk for Game -141
Risking 1,410.00 to Win 1,000.00 USD
For those unfamiliar with soccer betting these two underlined statements are contradictory because one line states "Spain to Advance" which is a wager on the winning team and includes extra-time and penalties if required.
The other line "Spread pk for Game" is standard notation for asian handicap bets (pk = 0 ball handicap) and these bets do not include extra-time and penalties and are settled in regulation time only.
This was the problem last night. My "to advance" bet was recorded as a "spread pk for game" bet. They are NOT the same thing if the game goes to extra-time. I have pointed this out to Pinnacle but they don't seem to accept that they have a problem.
Does anyone know if their linesmen know anything about soccer betting or do they just copy the lines off asian books that do??
It appears that you did not make a copy of your bet onto your computer, a major mistake.
If you did copy your bet and it is as you state then Pinnacle will correct their mistake. What does your history show for this bet?
My current bet shows the following "Spread Spain to Advance (+0) vs France to Advance for Game -141". I don't see any ambiguity there.
Perhaps in the press of in running you made an error?
If you did copy your bet and it is as you state then Pinnacle will correct their mistake. What does your history show for this bet?
My current bet shows the following "Spread Spain to Advance (+0) vs France to Advance for Game -141". I don't see any ambiguity there.
Perhaps in the press of in running you made an error?
Here are their rules on such a wager.
Bets on teams to qualify or to advance to the next round of a competition:
Bets are paid out on the referee’s final whistle at the match’s natural conclusion, whether the match is decided in regular time, extra time, or in a penalty shootout. Extra time and penalty shootouts are always included for betting purposes.
So I would assume that even though it says Pk in the bet title, the fact that it says "To Advance" would supersede the Pk. Just my thoughts.
Bets on teams to qualify or to advance to the next round of a competition:
Bets are paid out on the referee’s final whistle at the match’s natural conclusion, whether the match is decided in regular time, extra time, or in a penalty shootout. Extra time and penalty shootouts are always included for betting purposes.
So I would assume that even though it says Pk in the bet title, the fact that it says "To Advance" would supersede the Pk. Just my thoughts.
SportSavant said:
Yeah I think they have made alot of mistakes with the lines they have posted during the WC. And your right about the customer service robotic replies. Can't even have a proper discussion with them just standard e-mail replies no phone.
My main regret is not pounding that +190 line in overtime as there would have been no complaints then (it would have increased my winnings as well) but as previously stated as the money was "in-dispute" still at that time due to their slow customer service response so I thought I shouldn't have put it back "in-play".
Whilst we are on this subject I should compare it to a similar experience I had at WWTS. It became apparent early on that they were using delayed feeds (ESPN) for their in-running service and they posted a rule about cancelling past-post bets when a goal is scored which is fair enough. They said nothing about penalties or sendings off though, so I hit some lines in those circumstances. I spoke to the lines manager on the phone and we had an adult conversation about the situation which was resolved to everyones satisfaction, a great contrast to Pinnacle.
In response to the in-running "pressure" comment I have bet sports events in-running for a number of years and remain very calm during the games. I have even monitored my heart-rate during trading and it barely gets above resting. Panic and nervousness are your enemies to clear thinking when you bet in-running. The only time I have lost it was when McNabb threw 2 interceptions on 1st and goal in superbowl XXXIX but that is another story, lol.
