Sportsbook stories from the 90's. From degenrate to mature degenrate.

[Sugarbear]

I did not drop out of college till the end of the first semester of my JR year
in 1990 which would have been Christmas time. I had worked an internship that summer at the Tropicana and while college interns can not be seen to making bets for themselves my bosses sent me to get there tickets in so I became familiar with the book there that way and is how I wound up there. This story picks up 1.5 years in but encompasses my general wide eyed mindset at the time. I will go back at some point and pick up from the begining as well as dip into my time at UNLV where going to college at from 87-91 was very diffrent than what going to college like anywhere else in the world was like and of course includes stories from the strip.

This story I wrote on MW Dec 6th. I was brand spanking new to fourms period and had never participated in anything offshore until the stroy that sparked this memory appeared there on the 5th. I also had no clue at the time that the very people I had always most wanted to know about, be around and then later where they had dissapreaed to were sitting in that fourm. Man was I ever happy to find the VOG. Scotty S. being chief among them by far.





OK. Before this thread dissapears let me tell you about a baby Sugar Bear who was working at the the Tropicana during the football season of 92 the day Billy Baxter and his wife come walking in 1 Sun I did not know it at that moment but then manager Bobby Davis now
long time manager at Leroys and his assistant the shoe box wise guy himself the fabulos Donny D, did. They stood on either side of me as he walked to my window and introduced him to me. I was like wide eyed and stunned at the same time as a legendary betting figure stood before me looking to make some bets. Now just a little background here. First before I ever came to Vegas I had absoutly no betting background at all and new nothing of point spreads and games. By 92 I did and also believed that the wise guys I had heard about and tried to read eveything about were about in there 40,s tops. Not the mid 60's or so he and the very first one I met and thought I wanted to be just like in Herbie Hoops. Man was I naive. So staying with the naive thing here now I am thinking man whats this going to bet and how much. Let me tell you, not as much as I thought and it showed on my face. So after making his bets and asking Bobby about my story he suddendly focuses in on me and says "son do not believe everything you hear and think about wise guys,
not every bet we make is on the grand scale the books and papers would have you believe." He goes on to say:" as it were my RV is parked out in the circle and me and my wife are going camping I just stopped in for a little action for the ride on down. He also told me
"son you are to smart for all this and this is not the life you want to live. Go back to school get your education and make something of yourself. Just remember to thank me later." Should have listened. In any event I sit there awed as he is walking away saying hello to his runner as he walks out the door. Later after my shift the Faboulos One sat me down and gave me a continuing education
on my ever expanding big time adjustment to the realities of the sports betting world. In short he told me when you get out into the real sports book world, do not believe everything you see and hear. With guys like Billy you never know there is so much they do. He said in that instance he was just stopping in for some action, (pause) Today. Now that does not mean it will not be buisness as usual Tommorow
and that he wont send Jerry over there to the counter to take advantage of us, but today he was after personal action and came to where he knew he can get it and at what prices without all the new books in town bullshit. The type of transaction you were involved in is how things used to be in another time and place when men could come to the bookie openly and talk out the transactions in speakeasy
voice thus comeing to a mutually satisfying situation for both parties on a given situation at the time.

I told that story because I was surprised to see Billys name in the paper that included Robert Walker in it. The reason why is upon seeing Billys name I was instantly whisked back to that day as well as others when he would come in and I was reminded of how far I have come since those days. I am Bobby Davis and Donny D trained in old school bookmaking principles and got to see first hand what the old
independent houses did to survive as we had no race book as well as he started as a writer at churchill I believe and worked under true
legends himself as well as along side a few that are directing books today and living in thailand in one persons case. I am also Robert Walker trained to the hilt as he spent a lot of time teaching me real world ways of running books as well as Joe Lupo and Bob Scuuci to boot. In the end I could see the the direct line of 13 yrs past in an instant as I am doing better than I ever have professionaly and a direct line can be drawn to the teachings of those 2 and my successes today.

I often wonder for those who have gone thru the process of getting to a place like this if they remember fondly there early wide eyed days when being on the very inside and current with the moves was life itself and is all you ever wanted to do and know about.

I also wonder if you had a chance to do it all over would you take the advice of someone like a Billy Baxter and go make something of yourself or would you do it all again?

[Judge Wapner]

Good read, Bear.

[ensign_lee]

uh...I'm sorry to say that I didn't understand a VAST majority of that...

[Illini]

This is going to be an awesome thread. Good stuff, Sugarbear. Looking forward to meeting you in a couple months. What is the surprise that is coming? Movie? Book? Book written by you? Or does it have to remain a surprise?

[Sugarbear]

Ok now for those who missed it I started this thread at the request of Illini whom wanted to hear more stories after my reponse to Sportsmylifes tell me something amazing, crazy, scary gambling has made you do thread.


Well in short it made me drop out of college (I went to UNLV) and become a wanna be wise guy aka degenerate gambler. Here is how the story begins.




I came to UNLV in August of 87 to study Hotel and Resturant administration.
It was the number 1 school in the nation for that program and a logical place to go. When I came here I was a big sports fan but had no exposure to gambling on games or the like at all. That would include most of my friends I made that first semester. None the less being in Las Vegas.... and only a scant 2 miles from the strip.....



Before coming here however Vegas had 2 BIG things going for it at the time on the national level. 1. The Runnin Rebels fresh off there final 4 appearance
and the Stardust with Scotty Schettler in chair. Even though I came from a protected non gambing community everyone knew his name, that hotel and who the Rebels were. I WAS the man. I was going to the cool school.



Meanwhile back at the dorm being all tucked in and waved godbye to by our parents a full week in advance of school begining all hell broke loose. A full fledge Toga party broke out the very first nite. You should have seen the dorm directors face. I will spare you the rest.


In any event in short order we make it up to the strip for the Jerry Lewis telethon and right into the sportsbook at Ceasers palace thinking all the way that being sports fans and knowing about sports means you can win at sports betting. Thats exactly what we believed when we made those first bets I can assure you because all we did was go I got the winner, you aint got no winner as young aggresive men are givin to doing. So after the telethon and regrouping from our weekend losses we wind up at the Las Vegas Hilton as our spot to play and its down hill from there.



Now first I had a roommate named Jerry from Cinncinatti who was a smooth fast talking hustler in the wrong city for him. Also we had friends who knew people back east that could vouch for them so they had JR runner jobs mostly on the weekends. Jr runners only get x amount and are mostly planted at one book with everything having to be turned in when bet out, called in or the guy showed up. Can you imagine the stories they told and the way they told them.


Oh man let me tell you a guy comes running up to this guys bet 50 g's on this game, hes had people running all around, I bet this and this for this, then I had to run and...before... and a couple of plays haven't gone off yet......



Screeech, as my roomate was all in fast for everything but the rest of us were sports crazy and just trying to bet the hot info games like the wise guys did. Can you imagine a bunch of college aged kids running around the Hilton rooting in games for people we did not know, for money that was not ours, out knowing one single thing about how things really work, betting like crazy? OH man were those ever the days. At least up till Oct. 2nd which is my birthday which fell on a football Saturday in 87.



So like all the weeks before my roomate and I get up early to go put our tickets in only this time we are coming right back we say as we had projects due for mid terms soon and were a little behind so to speak. So I just throw on my slippers, sweats and shirt and zoom to the Hilton right quick. That was at 8am by 7 pm that night My roomate had long been gone and I was still at the Hilton having just gambled away the last of the 1600 I had left over in the bank when I came just the 5 weeks before. I was just crushed. Just crushed.



To add insult to injury I had to walk back to the dorm in those slippers, sweats and shirt I had left in the 12 hours before. Anyone who has been down that road outside the book entrance knows that, that is a long winding, curvy road that leads straight back to the University. Walking it in your slippers, on your birthday, on a dark night after losing all your money is BRUTAL. Positivly.



After that I did not lose more than 300 hundred total over the next 3 years and did not start my decent into this world in full until the summer of 1990 when 2 straight buses passed me by as I was trying to get to an interview for an internship at the Riv but I wound up at Little Ceasers instead.....

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by Illini

This is going to be an awesome thread. Good stuff, Sugarbear. Looking forward to meeting you in a couple months. What is the surprise that is coming? Movie? Book? Book written by you? Or does it have to remain a surprise?

It has to remain a surprise. I cant wait though. It wont be long. Movies and books will be decided by what the public wants. While plausible down the road its premature right now.

[Fishhead]

Bobby Davis?

Where is he at now.

Was a fairly good aquaintance of him.


Also Sugeabear, I must know you.......at the very least by face.

[Fishhead]

Originally Posted by Fishhead

Bobby Davis?

Where is he at now.

Was a fairly good aquaintance of him.


Also Sugeabear, I must know you.......at the very least by face.

If you worked at Little Ceasers, I definetly know you!

I was a semi-runner there for your legendary boss(making runs to Ceasers for him) and ended up very, very good friends with one of your supervisers "Buddy"(who I actually worked with as a supervisor with at the old Alladdin for a short time in the late 80's/early 90's).

Small world,

-FH-

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by Fishhead

Bobby Davis?

Where is he at now.

Was a fairly good aquaintance of him.


Also Sugeabear, I must know you.......at the very least by face.

Bobby Davis along with Don has been the long time point man behind the scenes at Leroys. Since about 93 no later than 94 I am guessing. I have not talk to him in a few months but I will soon as he is one I want to come out and tell some stories of the 70's ticket writers and what not, the fun they had and some of the true legends he worked beside long before they even had the idea that might make them what they are today. Roxy would be chief and the most known. Also I am sure Booby is off Sonny's line at that.



It is likey you know me by face Fish as I did not work at Little Ceasers but I was at the Dust from 94-2000. Not only did your guys use to come down to our place and hang out at times, I myself as a street running degenrate hung out at the Sands as it was one of the in places to be a degenrate at in the middle 90's. If you ran in 92 and came into the Trop you would know me from there also as runners abounded there.



I am positive on Sundays after you guys had your mini lottery, you and the guys came down to the Dust and observe ours. I remember talking to them on several occasions comparing notes on things and who did what etc.


I was the one who always sat in the one chair so named because no matter what direction you came from the first person you ran into is me and I answered all the questions as well as did the phones.

[Fishhead]

Thanks SB

Do you know Steve Scott(currently at the Frontier).

He worked at the Trop with Bobby Davis(and possibly you).

I worked with Steve at the old Castaways and for a short time at the Alladdin...............and all in all probably my best friend in Sin City.

-FH-

ps- You attending the RX bash?

[djking]

any stories about or guys coming in betting the ranch on ASU not to cover during the benny sillman/steven headAche Smith point shaving scandal in 94?

i often wonder if they would have gotten away with it by going offshore even though it wasn't widely used at the time rather than the flags going off at the brick n mortars

[Fishhead]

[quote=djking]any stories about or guys coming in betting the ranch on ASU not to cover during the benny sillman/steven headAche Smith point shaving scandal in 94?

i often wonder if they would have gotten away with it by going offshore even though it wasn't widely used at the time rather than the flags going off at the brick n mortars[/quote


Loved the movie that was put out on this, forgot what it was called.

[djking]

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by djking

any stories about or guys coming in betting the ranch on ASU not to cover during the benny sillman/steven headAche Smith point shaving scandal in 94?

i often wonder if they would have gotten away with it by going offshore even though it wasn't widely used at the time rather than the flags going off at the brick n mortars

It was not the house being bet on the game as much as everyone in the house was betting on them. I mean non bettors clouding us at the counter
who did not know what they were doing calling out bets on them that the avg tourist/bettor does not normally bet unless its a Superbowl type event.



My mentor in this buisness D. Wayne mauldin was all over it the 2 weeks before. There are a lot of times your suspicions can be raised behind the counter on the littlest things that causes you to put things under a watch or highlight in your daily reports to keep an eye on.


I can not comment on the rest. Sorry.

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by Fishhead

Thanks SB

Do you know Steve Scott(currently at the Frontier).

He worked at the Trop with Bobby Davis(and possibly you).

I worked with Steve at the old Castaways and for a short time at the Alladdin...............and all in all probably my best friend in Sin City.

-FH-

ps- You attending the RX bash?

Steve just like yourself Fish would be right before my time. You appear in my studies of the offshores Fish to be in the last and thus youngest of the
Vegas Old Guard or what I call the crossover goup.

Crossover refers to those who started in true old school joints under the old BM's whom as corprate Vegas started to emerge learned to adjust to the new ways of doing things. Thus they were able to crossover and keep there seats in the industry. Those who choose not to adjust are either long gone from the scene or at this juncture sit bitter and angry about things that happened in the past. As one who knows many of the participants of the fallout years its just not a good thing folks.



Its like time has stood still since the end of 91 for many. I have sat behind the counter and watch many of them die along the way. The games are the only thing that kept them alive or gave them any kind of hope.
Its emotionaly crushing at times beyond what many can understand.
These people who hang out in these are like family memebers after a time.
They are people you care about no more or less than many in your life and would trust them implicitly over many. Believe me when I tell you.



Not all my stories are good ones.


I will be at the bash.

[Fishhead]

Good analogy.................looking forward to hashing some stories with you at the bash.

[BAGIANT]

So you know Mauldin? I bet you have heard of Faye Gunter also. I heard Mauldin is working for some golf course now.

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by stuckinvegas

So you know Mauldin? I bet you have heard of Faye Gunter also. I heard Mauldin is working for some golf course now.

D. Wayne runs the pro shop at Shadow Creek for Steve Wynn. He has more juice in this town than 90 percent of the people including several high end executive types from the different casinos.


Faye Gunter = The queen of pucks maybe.

[BAGIANT]

Queen of fuc*s maybe

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by stuckinvegas

Queen of fuc*s maybe

LMFAO. Big Time. Shhh. Keep it a secret.

[Sugarbear]

With football season approaching and the picture on the front page taking me back to that time I thought I would give everyone a glimpse of how one can go from degenrate to mature degenrate thanks to a unique oppurtunity given to me by Joe Lupo in the footabll season of 97.


About the 3rd week of the season in Joe calls me into his office one day and tells me the people upstairs wants to put a ticket window in the stardust lounge to take bets on football during the weekends. We need someone who knows what there doing over there and we want you to go. Its already hooked up to recieve the games. My own lounge away from the main floor.
Hmmmm, OK. This is going to be interesting I tell myself.




So I go over there that first saturday to get settled in needing to have parlay card holders as well as sheets, pens, my bank and the like. Lo and behold not only are we going to be watching games in the lounge they put a snack table right next to me with pizza, hotdogs, sandwhiches and the like for sale with a girl to work it. Oh man is this ever going to be fun.




At first the Tv system sucked but it did not matter. People were in there big time for the 12:30's and later on Saturday (most cant make the 9's but thats another story) and in easy time for kickoff on Sunday. The Sunday crowd was triple the Saturday one and standing room only at times.



Then one Saturday about 3 weeks in they put in a brand new state of the art satelite system. The 4 plex screen kind exactly like the ones ESPN had on both sides of the room plus a big drop down screen that covered the middle of the stage. In the back room sat the control plus a remote control.


Once I learned how to use it, it was all over the next 2.5 football seasons.
I could get 6 games in the morning and afternoon each on Saturdays from the big feeds plus 2 local channels for other games of interest as well as all the NFL games on Sunday. The big screen was reserved for the sound game that was voted for by the crowd, the rest I put where I WANTED. The screens closet to me got the games I had the most action on and the far side of the room was the other stuff. I bet in such a fashion that I had coverage on all the games pillar to post both days. I knew the TV scedule cold so it was easy. Better still of course being Juice with his own lounge his friends would come down to see him put in some bets and keep me company for awhile. Most of the time it was around halftime as there was no line ever for that stuff down there and its critical you get in on the good number.


Let me tell you its good to have friends in this buisness.



Oh man were those the days. Come in, set up, turn on the games, sweat your tickets, make sure all the 12:30's were up and running after the 9's were over and then lunch. Folks I did not have to be back to the lounge till the first halftime of the 12:30's on Sat and on Sundays I had 2 hours really as halftime takes a long time to come. As long as everyone was happy and taken care of I could do what I wanted.


I did what I always did at lunch. Went downstairs ate and then right across the street to the Riv to bet some horses and bet the late games.


I went across the street to bet horses and games period for years on end while at the Dust. I gave Gary Jones a ton of my tip or otherwise money.
Vic Salerno too while I am at it. I always won enough to lose it back or lost it to win it back. It didn't make a difference. I just lived the life. It really is what you do with the money in the middle.


Between winning and losing or losing and winning there is always a PROFIT if you choose to take it. Believe me when I tell you. Its all about perspective.


I worked the counter like a dream. I made plenty of folding money along the way which fueled that lifestyle even more. I know/knew plenty of true wise guys as we did cater to them and I passed along information the old fashioned way in this culture. Life was good.

[Illini]

Sugarbear- were you working the day when that guy came in a shot someone in the Stardust sportsbook? I suppose that is another story you will tell if you were there.

[djking]

"Las Vegas Justice of the Peace William Jansen ruled on Tuesday that a man charged with killing another man inside the sportsbook of the Stardust resort is competent enough to stand trial. Anthony Cuccia is charged with shooting and killing Philip Greenspan, 56, inside the Stardust sportsbook back on Feb. 7th. Cuccia will be arraigned on Nov. 1st before District Judge Donald Mosley. Cuccia told police following his arrest that he killed Greenspan because he thought that Greenspan was going to kill him on orders from organized crime.
That response and other weird acts led authorities and defense attorneys to question whether Cuccia was mentally balanced and led to the hearing to determine whether or not Cuccia was mentally competent enough to understand the charges against him.
Cuccia was sent to Lakes Crossing, the state facility for mentally offenders in Sparks to determine whether or not he was competent to stand trial. Doctors there determined that Cuccia is indeed competent. Cuccia is suggesting that he is a former member of the Gambino crime family.
Prosecutors say that Cuccia's depth of knowledge about organized crime suggest that his delusions may have some basis in fact but said that they still believe that Cuccia is delusional and that even delusional people are responsible for their actions if they know right from wrong.
Prosecutors even said that Cuccia's depth of knowledge about organized crime suggests that his delusions may even have some basis in fact.

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by Illini

Sugarbear- were you working the day when that guy came in a shot someone in the Stardust sportsbook? I suppose that is another story you will tell if you were there.

Man was I ever there and will certainly tell that story from the Other Side of the Counter (OTC) perspective now that you asked.


Talk about untold stories.

[Sugarbear]

Originally Posted by Illini

Sugarbear- were you working the day when that guy came in a shot someone in the Stardust sportsbook? I suppose that is another story you will tell if you were there.

Folks this event is one of the incredible ones of my career. It was either a Monday or Tuesday as only the shit tracks like Deleware and Philadelphia
were running. It was a morning like any morning, slow and boring with the usual suspects making there bets plus a few tourist. Nothing special at all.


This day I and my co-worker Jenny were one with the Q. One with the Q referes to a certain part of the counter at the Dust that when you paseed it were consisered to be working in the race book for the day. On slow days everyone is clustered in that section for the most part.



Now this day was nothing special like I said. I was a little lucky that day as I caught a tourist on a nice run at Philly whom was tipping me nicely.
Said tourist hits a tirfecta at some point that comes back in the machine as pay 1900 dollars. So a usual I go into my drawer to count the money
out. As I turn around to pay him...a real loud bang rings out like a bomb went off only you didn't quite feel thats what it was.


Now in between bang one and two me and this guy are looking at each other with silver dollar eyes. After bang two all hell broke loose.


In classic movie slow motion movements I dive for the floor trying to get thru the doorway and into the back as I am doing this my one supervisor Jim jumps over me and kicks me flush in the back of the head. So I hit the floor and hear screaming plus stuff moving all over the place it seems.


In the midst of all this panic all of a sudden I hear my contemporary Ray Spaulding yelling at the top of his lungs I have the gun, I have the gun.


Now in the most incredible thing I have seen in my life, Ray is holding the gun in the air cocked, everyone starts coming up for air getting there bearings while the guy who did the shooting went and sat down in the front row,started watching Tv and started singing to himself like nothing hapened. GTFO. My eyes were out my head , Metro was not there yet and secutrity whom did not have guns were useless. This guy could have gotten away easy. And I do mean easy. Out the side door and onto industrial and you are gone in no time.



Now a couple of minutes goes by and in bust Metro at full speed to control the situation but nothing was going on. The gun is sitting on the counter and all were just waiting around for them. One cop comes to the counter while several people point the guy out sitting in the first row.


Folks in one of the most incredible things I ever heard after they arrest this guy and read him his rights, he strikes up a converstation with a couple of cops like he was at a bus stop taking about the weather or something. A full one about little things and you can tell the cops are just going along wondering WTF.


In no way did this guy act like he just shot someone almost to death at this point. The guy he shot managed to make it outside the front door before dying out front. On this very same day some guy at the Westward Ho lost all his money and decided that he wanted to try to commit suicide.


Now not only do we have foresenics all over the book digging the bullet out of the one row of race seats but we have a suicide team out front trying to talk a guy into not dropping his body onto a sharp knife he planted in the ground in order to kill himself with. Incredible shit on top of incredible shit there folks.


It took the police several hours to clear the scene. Just as they had recovered the first bullet and had given up on the second one someone noticed a big hole in one of our race screens and so upstairs they went to find the other bullet.


To all of our regular customers great credit they did not go anylace else to bet that day. The time for the NBA kept getting closer and the crowds bigger but they did not leave. We opened back up at 4:15. We wrote more tickets and took more money in, in 15 minutes than in the history of the industry on a non football weekend. We got everyone in without adding time.


At the end of the day when things were fairly normal again and had slowed down we all looked at each other behind the counter, let out a big sigh of relief and did what the Rams had done that football season when they won it all. There was like 10 of us bending down low slapping hands jumping side to side saying we survived.


Whew.


That is the first time that story has been told in open public from the people on the other side of the counter that day anywhere.