Most of those sheets suck because they lack a LOT of info, pace just being one component..and to boot they're so expensive for what little they give you.
If you need the ease of sheets, then i recommend these--
Graphs: http://www.horsedata.com/tj.html and here: http://www.trackjudge.com/ there's an email link there for a free future sample date of your choice....
Numbers(& lots of them to pick from): http://www.horsedata.com/rspos.html pick up the phone on the home page & talk to them. This place is known for having he best figs in the business: study after study comparing the major speed figs in existence confirms this... AND also has the rep of being the highest-quality data provider...there're a number of interfacing software programs listed on the home page.
For less than the cost of one Sheets multi-card simulcast day, you get every single track everyday for the whole month...
Good Luck.
If you need the ease of sheets, then i recommend these--
Graphs: http://www.horsedata.com/tj.html and here: http://www.trackjudge.com/ there's an email link there for a free future sample date of your choice....
Numbers(& lots of them to pick from): http://www.horsedata.com/rspos.html pick up the phone on the home page & talk to them. This place is known for having he best figs in the business: study after study comparing the major speed figs in existence confirms this... AND also has the rep of being the highest-quality data provider...there're a number of interfacing software programs listed on the home page.
For less than the cost of one Sheets multi-card simulcast day, you get every single track everyday for the whole month...
Good Luck.
Iceman said:
For a good fundamental start in sheet reading, grab Len Ragozin's "The Odds Must Be Crazy". It will fundamentally change the way you view horseracing and handicapping.
I have been a TG customer for close to 15 years now, going back to my high school years when I would get FedEx packages at home with my folks always wondering what in the hell I was doing. There are always arguments between the TG and Rags camps over which product is better. I prefer TG on the basis of some of the stances they take when making a figure. Ragozin has been guilty over the years of not splitting cards/variants to account for weather/track changes and it has resulted in some really wacked out figures. I tried Rags back in the mid 90's when I would drive to GSP and the guy would always cut me a really good deal there, wish I could remember his name. Used to always be a guy named Jimmy that would hang around that stand. But anyways, I just found Ragozin's figures to be suspect at times. A matter of personal preference.
But if I were you, I'd start with the the Ragozin book if you at least have a decent grasp of handicapping. If you don't, I'd start off with Steve Davidowitz' book, "Handicapping Thoroughbreds".
Always feel free to jump down to the Horse Racing Forum. It's a small, but hospitable group for the most part.
Here's the link:
http://www.thesheets.com/
while the drf is good, this gives a better, picture of the race - especially when i'm not familiar with the majoirty in the race. last i knew they were right around $20-$25. something to consider if you're going to go heavy or after a high carry-over (pick 6).
http://www.thesheets.com/
while the drf is good, this gives a better, picture of the race - especially when i'm not familiar with the majoirty in the race. last i knew they were right around $20-$25. something to consider if you're going to go heavy or after a high carry-over (pick 6).
Charles,
You're really kidding yourself if you are to say that the Rags and TG suck. When you say they give you so little, it's the quality of the number you're paying for. It almost sounds like you've never seriously taken up handicapping from a sheet perspective. When I say seriously I mean more than just a weekend or a couple of weeks. Just like most gambling endeavours, it's a costly education at first. You should know by now there are many ways to skin the horse racing cat.
You're really kidding yourself if you are to say that the Rags and TG suck. When you say they give you so little, it's the quality of the number you're paying for. It almost sounds like you've never seriously taken up handicapping from a sheet perspective. When I say seriously I mean more than just a weekend or a couple of weeks. Just like most gambling endeavours, it's a costly education at first. You should know by now there are many ways to skin the horse racing cat.
oldmanTed,
I prefer the form as well but when the in-season meet comes around, I've been know to use e-bases programs. One of the things that always ticked me off was if you were to buy the form at the track they'd charge you an extra fifty cents but you could buy it off-track at cover price.
I prefer the form as well but when the in-season meet comes around, I've been know to use e-bases programs. One of the things that always ticked me off was if you were to buy the form at the track they'd charge you an extra fifty cents but you could buy it off-track at cover price.
How do you know my software does not print out in Sheets style? Or how many different Sheets i've used?Labeeb said:
I've used them...i used to get VERY good deals too-- both in downtown NY, then in Caesar's Vegas..way back in the 80's.
I moved on to more complex things, what can i tell you.
I'll stand by the two sheets i gave out as being tons better...check them out, they're much better.
And yes, there's more than one way to skin a cat-- In fact, i do it to keep from getting too 'blinkered': I may do one month of only DRF rag like in the old days, then a month of only Bris PDF, then back to my software...
Speaking of cat, i hear my wife coming in...
Later..........
PS I'll do a handicapping challenge side by side with anyone-- pick your equipment & I use mine-- we can compare notes.
Charles,
In never questionined your current product, just your statement that TG and Rags are junk. If TG sucks, I guess I've been on one hell of a lucky ride. Both with betting and purchasing many horses over the last 5 years. Are other products more complete? Perhaps. Have you found what works for you? Yes. Have I found what works for me? Aboslutely.
In never questionined your current product, just your statement that TG and Rags are junk. If TG sucks, I guess I've been on one hell of a lucky ride. Both with betting and purchasing many horses over the last 5 years. Are other products more complete? Perhaps. Have you found what works for you? Yes. Have I found what works for me? Aboslutely.
We posted simultaneously...I only posted an opinion--I didn't post, for instance: denigrating what YOU use AFTER seeing what you posted...in fact, i didn't ever know what you in fact use.
But i have written highly before of your handicapping..witnessed by your plus ROI in horse matchups.
OP asked for an opinion on three feed supplement brands, i instead gave him two different brands that contain lots more vitamins..& in addition: amino acids & minerals.
Sorry-- i meant sucks because of the high price vis a vis lacking features.
If we handicapped together one day, it'd be fun.......
But i have written highly before of your handicapping..witnessed by your plus ROI in horse matchups.
OP asked for an opinion on three feed supplement brands, i instead gave him two different brands that contain lots more vitamins..& in addition: amino acids & minerals.
Sorry-- i meant sucks because of the high price vis a vis lacking features.
If we handicapped together one day, it'd be fun.......
Labeeb said:
Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE racing fan when it comes to reading matieral.
I have a ton of stuff by Barry Meadow(my favorite), Dick Mitchell, Steven Crist, etc.... I love reading horse racing stuff, just not that big on the whole sport (actually like harness a little more, grew up with it). Alot of the guys that write are vey knowledgable on the whole money management thing, which I use in my sporte betting also.
So the Ragozin book is good? I like a good horse racing book, espicially one that is good story as much as a handicapping tool. Been looking all over for this book, is is better than Blinkers off by Foitas (sp)?
I have no knowledge of the sheets was thinking about looking into them but just not sold on the whole form cycle thing yet, maybe the book will help.
One bookseller on abebooks.com has the Ragozin book at $13 and change, and about $3 for shipping.
A more interesting question is why are they're so fucking many books on horserace handicapping. And so many services selling sheets, ratings, etc etc.
I mean, the ratio of sports bettors to horse players must be something like 20 to one. Yet the number of decent books on sports handicapping can virtually be countedon one hand. And a quck peek at any horse book in Vegas will tell you that - compared to the demographics for sports bettor - many of the horse players will soon be wagering on angel races.
So why? Please oh please tell me why?
The explosion of horsse handicapping tomes began in the 1960s, when a medical doctor using the nom de plume of Tom Ainslee published a series of such books.
Since then, the cascade has not let up. I contributed to it with dozens of handicapping and system articles in the racng and general press in the 80s and early 90s. But I did turn down a publisher's request that I do a book - partly because it was on a flat fee and not royalty basis, partly because I did not have time, but mostly because I did not want to kill trees to add to the vast wasteland of horse handicapping literature.
I don't know how many bettors are ahead after a lifetime of horse betting; very few, I imagine, unless they hit a huge Pick Six and then got religion and quit. But for sure the authors who tell us we can win if we will but shell out our bucks to buy and follow their master plan are ahead of this difficult game controlled by the deep insiders.
A more interesting question is why are they're so fucking many books on horserace handicapping. And so many services selling sheets, ratings, etc etc.
I mean, the ratio of sports bettors to horse players must be something like 20 to one. Yet the number of decent books on sports handicapping can virtually be countedon one hand. And a quck peek at any horse book in Vegas will tell you that - compared to the demographics for sports bettor - many of the horse players will soon be wagering on angel races.
So why? Please oh please tell me why?
The explosion of horsse handicapping tomes began in the 1960s, when a medical doctor using the nom de plume of Tom Ainslee published a series of such books.
Since then, the cascade has not let up. I contributed to it with dozens of handicapping and system articles in the racng and general press in the 80s and early 90s. But I did turn down a publisher's request that I do a book - partly because it was on a flat fee and not royalty basis, partly because I did not have time, but mostly because I did not want to kill trees to add to the vast wasteland of horse handicapping literature.
I don't know how many bettors are ahead after a lifetime of horse betting; very few, I imagine, unless they hit a huge Pick Six and then got religion and quit. But for sure the authors who tell us we can win if we will but shell out our bucks to buy and follow their master plan are ahead of this difficult game controlled by the deep insiders.
Charles,
No harm done. Just a simple misunderstanding. When I pay $25 for a card of TG, what I am expecting to get is the BEST in variants, ground loss, timing, track conditions/maintenance, etc. They don't crank out pace figures, etc. but I at least know that going in. There have been rumors of TG introducing a pace component somewhere down the line, but I'll believe it when I see it. For those that like breeding and trainer angles, TG has enhanced their product to provides these and have gone some extra steps to make it more valuable to those that are looking for it.
If we run a horse at MTH this summer and I make the trip, I'll let you know and we can hook up.
Iceman,
I would suggest reading Ragozin before Fotias (Xtras). It will probably give you a better foundation. ThoroGraph has a section of their website called The Red Board Room where you can see sheets from previous days for free, study and "handicap" the races ex post. If you ever have any questions regarding them, contact a mod and let me know.
No harm done. Just a simple misunderstanding. When I pay $25 for a card of TG, what I am expecting to get is the BEST in variants, ground loss, timing, track conditions/maintenance, etc. They don't crank out pace figures, etc. but I at least know that going in. There have been rumors of TG introducing a pace component somewhere down the line, but I'll believe it when I see it. For those that like breeding and trainer angles, TG has enhanced their product to provides these and have gone some extra steps to make it more valuable to those that are looking for it.
If we run a horse at MTH this summer and I make the trip, I'll let you know and we can hook up.
Iceman,
I would suggest reading Ragozin before Fotias (Xtras). It will probably give you a better foundation. ThoroGraph has a section of their website called The Red Board Room where you can see sheets from previous days for free, study and "handicap" the races ex post. If you ever have any questions regarding them, contact a mod and let me know.
Labeeb said:
thanks I sure will. Like I said I am not a big horse player, just seems so damn hard to beat. Also have a hard time with throughbreds with all the different distances, tracks, etc... Thats why harness racing has always been more appealing to me.
The info with throughbred is so much deeper. Nothing better than capping a race it is fun. The funny thing is (I have said this is in the past) I bet a couple hundred dollars on baseball, basketball, football game and I don't have to watch a play. But $40 on a horse race and my palms are sweating, funny isn't it?
