http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/graphics/2006/07/18/ubeton17pdf.pdf
Its in PDF and I dont know how to copy and paste the info...sorry
Its in PDF and I dont know how to copy and paste the info...sorry
(6) ENTERPRISE operated a website and telephone service that directly marketed to bettors in the Eastern District of Missouri
(11) Between September 1 and October 30, 2003 THE KAPLAN GAMBLING ENTERPRISE mailed brochures, magazines, coupons and flyers from an address in Miami, FL TO 12430 Tesson Ferry Road St. Louis, Missouri
I remember a few other high profile internet gambling cases being tried in the Eastern District of Missouri as well.. I think the attorney general there has a hard on for internet gambling companies.
(11) Between September 1 and October 30, 2003 THE KAPLAN GAMBLING ENTERPRISE mailed brochures, magazines, coupons and flyers from an address in Miami, FL TO 12430 Tesson Ferry Road St. Louis, Missouri
I remember a few other high profile internet gambling cases being tried in the Eastern District of Missouri as well.. I think the attorney general there has a hard on for internet gambling companies.
BetOnSports and English Sports
It weems to me that the Fed's have already tried to do some of these things before against Dennis Atiyeh in 2001 by trying to get him for racketeering.
I am trying to work out why this is so different? It would seem that the fundamental problem is that this company BOS has actually advertised the number of US customers it has and has made it clear that the majority of their business comes from the US.
If i am right then the issue here is going to be that publicly quoted companies that take bets from the US are all in trouble, because they have to declare their earnings sources. Privately held off shore companies may not be in so much trouble ... yet!!!
OR am I being too simplistic?
It weems to me that the Fed's have already tried to do some of these things before against Dennis Atiyeh in 2001 by trying to get him for racketeering.
I am trying to work out why this is so different? It would seem that the fundamental problem is that this company BOS has actually advertised the number of US customers it has and has made it clear that the majority of their business comes from the US.
If i am right then the issue here is going to be that publicly quoted companies that take bets from the US are all in trouble, because they have to declare their earnings sources. Privately held off shore companies may not be in so much trouble ... yet!!!
OR am I being too simplistic?
After reading the Indictment I think its safe to say that BOS brought all this to themselves. I mean they touted that they handled 63 bets per minute 24/7/52 and 98% came from US bettors. The DOJ is looking for a sacrificial lamb and they found one in BOS...JMO
I saw a few extra zeros where it listed the wire transfers for marketing expenses :realtongu
Probably the feds decided what company to go against by having a conversation like
Fed1: ok we have placed bets in 10 places, who do we go after?
Fed2: well.......I won at this company.....and they voided my bonus and then accused me of colluding because our IPs are similars......they claim I am a pro
Fed1: damn, they voided my bonus too , drats
Fed2: ok that's it.................
Probably the feds decided what company to go against by having a conversation like
Fed1: ok we have placed bets in 10 places, who do we go after?
Fed2: well.......I won at this company.....and they voided my bonus and then accused me of colluding because our IPs are similars......they claim I am a pro
Fed1: damn, they voided my bonus too , drats
Fed2: ok that's it.................
If BoS really gets into trouble, would anyone DARE gamble that they won't be stealing from now on! I wouldn't dare trust this joint.
And as an aside, since almost all spots have benefitted from their banner being up on top, if they stop getting deposits and start getting withdrawals, how much do you think they are going to pay for a "Platinum" banner? Problem is these sites have gotten used to their extra income, and won't defend anyone who has a problem. Boy is that going to change when they stop paying!!!! And believe me, there will be nothing but problems from now on. Now they can at least blame the US Gov't!
And as an aside, since almost all spots have benefitted from their banner being up on top, if they stop getting deposits and start getting withdrawals, how much do you think they are going to pay for a "Platinum" banner? Problem is these sites have gotten used to their extra income, and won't defend anyone who has a problem. Boy is that going to change when they stop paying!!!! And believe me, there will be nothing but problems from now on. Now they can at least blame the US Gov't!
stuckinvegas said:
The interesting issue here is that BOS is publicly traded on the London AIM, they can't just start stiffing people, unless the really wan't to go out of business because they are under the scrutiny of real auditors and a real stock exchange. They can not be a dodgy fly-by-night here today gone tomorrow company even if they want to.
Again, I am not sure that this endictment truely relates to current gaming OR to a time long ago (over the last 15 years). It certainly seems to me that these people come from a rather grey background.
You should be aware that On-line sports gambling is illegal in the US, not in the UK and most of the rest of the civilised world. The US is also a signatory to WTO agrements and other international trade agreements. I suspect the issue here is that these people have actively gone out of their way to laugh in the face of the DOJ.
Or are they just stupid? Let's face it, who would change planes in Dallas to go to Costa Rica if they were aware of a potential arrest. Wouldn't you just fly direct from the UK? Or change planes somewhere/any where else?
There's a bit more to this story still to be uncovered.
the fact that they bragged about "you cant touch us" only adds salt to the wound BUT
from the indictment it shows that they have been looking into this for a few years, I think I saw stuff as old as 1999 so IMHO they simply said "we want to get G and anyone linked to him will just get involved in the mess"
from the indictment it shows that they have been looking into this for a few years, I think I saw stuff as old as 1999 so IMHO they simply said "we want to get G and anyone linked to him will just get involved in the mess"
I read the whole thing and here is what I have learned:
1. If you run an offshore wagering company, you can no longer travel to the United States. I think most people assumed this. A few people like David and Calvin liked the high profile and assumed you could still come here.
2. I am confused as to how the Grand Jury repeatedly says illegal gambling activity (In whose eyes). If it is already illegal, there would be no need to have an internet gambling bill in congress now. Also even though multiple court cases have not proven where internet gambling takes place, this attorney has decided it happens here.
3. I am stunned that companies whose sole job was media and advertising were charged. This tells me either dont advertise gambling in the US or have a big budget for lawyers. I suspect these companies will be tossed or their lawyers will appeal this thing all the way up to the supreme court.
4. They have been investigating BOS since 2002!!!! Four years and millions of dollars to get this indictment.
From here, this goes one of two ways -
1. It stays in very conservative Missouri, the judge says if they did what the indictment says, they are guilty, and the jury votes them guilty.
2. It somehow gets moved somewhere else or gets a liberal judge who allows the lawyers to argue and the jury to decide if what they did is illegal. If this happens, they get acquitted. I would be hiring some damn good lawyers who are darn good friends with the fed court judges...
I sure hope they get acquitted and the witch hunt ends.
Now the question is what is England going to do? The US clearly does not care about Antigua, but will our biggest wartime ally stand up and stick it to the DOJ? Will Blair stand up, get the WTO and all of the European Union together along with other business laws and agreements and stick it to the DOJ? I hope he does.
IF the CEO of Goldman Sachs was arrested by England because hedge funds are illegal there (They arent - just example) I would hope the US would seek all kinds of sanctions and take all kinds of action.
I suspect this does not go over lightly in Europe.
-Sean
1. If you run an offshore wagering company, you can no longer travel to the United States. I think most people assumed this. A few people like David and Calvin liked the high profile and assumed you could still come here.
2. I am confused as to how the Grand Jury repeatedly says illegal gambling activity (In whose eyes). If it is already illegal, there would be no need to have an internet gambling bill in congress now. Also even though multiple court cases have not proven where internet gambling takes place, this attorney has decided it happens here.
3. I am stunned that companies whose sole job was media and advertising were charged. This tells me either dont advertise gambling in the US or have a big budget for lawyers. I suspect these companies will be tossed or their lawyers will appeal this thing all the way up to the supreme court.
4. They have been investigating BOS since 2002!!!! Four years and millions of dollars to get this indictment.
From here, this goes one of two ways -
1. It stays in very conservative Missouri, the judge says if they did what the indictment says, they are guilty, and the jury votes them guilty.
2. It somehow gets moved somewhere else or gets a liberal judge who allows the lawyers to argue and the jury to decide if what they did is illegal. If this happens, they get acquitted. I would be hiring some damn good lawyers who are darn good friends with the fed court judges...
I sure hope they get acquitted and the witch hunt ends.
Now the question is what is England going to do? The US clearly does not care about Antigua, but will our biggest wartime ally stand up and stick it to the DOJ? Will Blair stand up, get the WTO and all of the European Union together along with other business laws and agreements and stick it to the DOJ? I hope he does.
IF the CEO of Goldman Sachs was arrested by England because hedge funds are illegal there (They arent - just example) I would hope the US would seek all kinds of sanctions and take all kinds of action.
I suspect this does not go over lightly in Europe.
-Sean
