An alternate theory of the motivation of the DOJ

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hangin' about
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Bear with me, as I'm mostly just talking out loud, but would like to get others' opinions on this.

I read an article recently (for the life of me I can't find it) that postulated that prior to Atlantic City (if I recall correctly) hosting legal gambling operations, a sweep of illegal bookmakers and other such rings were conducted. The purpose of this, hypothesised by the article I can't find, was to give the current casino/bookmaker's a criminal record, thereby taking them out of the game when the industry went legal.

Now, suppose that the DOJ realises that, ultimately, they will have to legalise internet gambling. (WTO ruling, impossibility of enforcement, etc.) And suppose that they realise the tax gains ahead. And suppose that taxing companies outside US jurisdiction is difficult and/or impossible (someone with a better knowledge of tax laws can help me out here.)

It stands to reason, if my rambling above is true, that the US would need to incentivise the industry to relocate and/or set up new shops in the US, thereby allowing the US to create its own regulatory/taxation rules. Could they be making arrests in order to keep the current players out of the game, set new precedent regarding current operations, and force companies to open up shop in the US down the road?
 
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I doubt the US Govt thinks that deeply,lol.

It will be interesting how they spin it someday when they do decide to tax it.
 

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my 2 cents.

Cases like this one against BetonSports et al take years to put together and essentially start with a single target (GK in this case) and expand to others that can be linked to the targets' alleged nefarious enterprises.

The Federal prosecutors in Missouri kept their indicment sealed until they were able to make an important arrest (David Carruthers), had Carruthers not landed in Dallas last Sunday most likely the indictment would still be sealed with the Feds waiting for that key arrest to occur before they unsealed the indictment. The Feds must have felt getting GK on US soil unlikely therefore they showed their hand with the arrest on Sunday..

IMO this case was not created for any far reaching national plan to create a US governement sanctioned group of super sportsbooks where US residents could play but simply a Federal prosecuter having a hard on for Kaplan and making a case over a long period of time. Everyone else named in the indictment is gravy if they are able to convict Kaplan on any of the charges he is indicted with. He had no chance with his history of ever being a player in any US governement regulated/taxed sports wagering enterprise.


wil.
 

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think it has anything to do with football a month away

biggest deposit time of the year comming up???

panther
 

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wilheim said:
Cases like this one against BetonSports et al take years to put together and essentially start with a single target (GK in this case) and expand to others that can be linked to the targets' alleged nefarious enterprises.

The Federal prosecutors in Missouri kept their indicment sealed until they were able to make an important arrest (David Carruthers), had Carruthers not landed in Dallas last Sunday most likely the indictment would still be sealed with the Feds waiting for that key arrest to occur before they unsealed the indictment. The Feds must have felt getting GK on US soil unlikely therefore they showed their hand with the arrest on Sunday..

IMO this case was not created for any far reaching national plan to create a US governement sanctioned group of super sportsbooks where US residents could play but simply a Federal prosecuter having a hard on for Kaplan and making a case over a long period of time. Everyone else named in the indictment is gravy if they are able to convict Kaplan on any of the charges he is indicted with. He had no chance with his history of ever being a player in any US governement regulated/taxed sports wagering enterprise.


wil.
I agree. And if all the bozo's(other unindicted books included) kept their nose clean: kept a low profile or at least no flaunting, no violence, no organizing their own militia, no scamming customers, no college recruiting-- there wouldn't be a case today.
 

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"Now, suppose that the DOJ realises that, ultimately, they will have to legalise internet gambling. (WTO ruling, impossibility of enforcement, etc.) And suppose that they realise the tax gains ahead. And suppose that taxing companies outside US jurisdiction is difficult and/or impossible (someone with a better knowledge of tax laws can help me out here.)

It stands to reason, if my rambling above is true, that the US would need to incentivise the industry to relocate and/or set up new shops in the US, thereby allowing the US to create its own regulatory/taxation rules. Could they be making arrests in order to keep the current players out of the game, set new precedent regarding current operations, and force companies to open up shop in the US down the road?"


Xpanda,
I think you may have something there, but your points are contradictory. On the one hand, the US will have to entice the offshore operators to open up businesses here when and if the US legalizes internet gambling. So if the DoJ makes arrests and makes certain offshore operators ineligible to open shops in the US, they will just insure that operators stay offshore.

Personally, I don't think the US govt has anything to fear about getting US operators for internet gambling should they legalize it. All the casinos in NV would love to get into the action.
 

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panther said:
biggest deposit time of the year comming up???

panther

I do.

In fact, because of all the govt scrutiny, I have decreased by 50% the amount of $ I am going to post up this football season.
 
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panther said:
biggest deposit time of the year comming up???

panther

I'd say primarily due to the House bill passing & the pending Senate bill....but yeah, it didn't hurt that it's a month until foots & he just happened to have a transfer in the US.

I have a weird gut feeling that they'll hang on to him until they get their hands on GK-then he'll be sprung.
 

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TTinCO said:
I'd say primarily due to the House bill passing & the pending Senate bill....but yeah, it didn't hurt that it's a month until foots & he just happened to have a transfer in the US.

I have a weird gut feeling that they'll hang on to him until they get their hands on GK-then he'll be sprung.

This man (Caruthers) seems to be the scapegoat, and will likely spend the next year incarcerated...I know many won't feel sorry for him, but this does seem outrageous, reading between the lines, it appears they just arrested the next best thing.

And what gets me, suppose a year from now or when this goes to trial he is found innocent or takes a plea bargain, he will have spent a year or a very long time in jail? Just seems wrong.

From mega wealth to an orange jumpsuit and a year to worry about his future.
 

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From what i read on the internet, Tomorrow(Friday) they will have a hearing on whether Bos chief will get bail and released or not. But 99% chance he will stay in jail.
 

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Most offshore and in the UK have criminal backgrounds. I have long stated that there are less than 100 people out there that could pass a basic US background check whats so ever. Even with amenesty on things like tax evasion would not help. In the UK you fill out your paper work, say and do all the right things to comply the rules, make your payments and your done. There is not 5 or 6 people looking over your shoulder in various ways making you walk a line in a certain way, holding your feet to the fire for your past mistakes and making you profess regret a million times. Not in the US. Go look up my Is regulation what you really want piece and tell me exactly what company wants to do that and with whom. Its Terri Lanni and Gary Loveman against any 25 you can muster up. Not a consideration.
 

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glennlovecolleen3 said:
From what i read on the internet, Tomorrow(Friday) they will have a hearing on whether Bos chief will get bail and released or not. But 99% chance he will stay in jail.

Well at the very least he should be allowed to wear a monitoing device and ordered to stay in the states .,,,why wouldn't that be acceptable?

Ken Lay walked around a free man til his untimely death .
 

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Journeyman said:
Well at the very least he should be allowed to wear a monitoing device and ordered to stay in the states .,,,why wouldn't that be acceptable?
I don't know, i'm just posting things I find or read on the internet. According to articles, they're going to keep him in custody. Maybe they don't want him running away to another country.
 

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He will get bail.

He has no criminal record.

He is the CEO of a publicly traded company in the UK.

The UK just helped with an extradition of 3 Enron guys.

If this guy does not get bail (He would in the UK and if he was a US citizen he would) it is possible that the UK takes their signature off the extradition treaty that has already pissed so many people off and that Washington has not signed..

I expect bail with a monitoring device and then I expect some kind of escape out of the U.S. It can not be impossible to work with those devices with $millions...

-Sean
 

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wilheim said:
Cases like this one against BetonSports et al take years to put together and essentially start with a single target (GK in this case) and expand to others that can be linked to the targets' alleged nefarious enterprises.

The Federal prosecutors in Missouri kept their indicment sealed until they were able to make an important arrest (David Carruthers), had Carruthers not landed in Dallas last Sunday most likely the indictment would still be sealed with the Feds waiting for that key arrest to occur before they unsealed the indictment. The Feds must have felt getting GK on US soil unlikely therefore they showed their hand with the arrest on Sunday..

IMO this case was not created for any far reaching national plan to create a US governement sanctioned group of super sportsbooks where US residents could play but simply a Federal prosecuter having a hard on for Kaplan and making a case over a long period of time. Everyone else named in the indictment is gravy if they are able to convict Kaplan on any of the charges he is indicted with. He had no chance with his history of ever being a player in any US governement regulated/taxed sports wagering enterprise.


wil.

I agree with you but substitute BOS with Kaplan. Not for the reasons we talk about here, them being stiffs etc. Because when they were having these grand juries back in 2003 it was all about advertising, and they were the biggest advertisers back then by far.

They couldn't care less about Gary Kaplan. Do you really think the Eastern District of Missouri ever heard of Gary Kaplan? Someone got a bug up their butt about a billboard or an ad and took it from there.
 

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sean1 said:
He will get bail.

He has no criminal record.

He is the CEO of a publicly traded company in the UK.

The UK just helped with an extradition of 3 Enron guys.

If this guy does not get bail (He would in the UK and if he was a US citizen he would) it is possible that the UK takes their signature off the extradition treaty that has already pissed so many people off and that Washington has not signed..

I expect bail with a monitoring device and then I expect some kind of escape out of the U.S. It can not be impossible to work with those devices with $millions...

-Sean

I agree, I just cannot see this man rotting in jail til his trial...just seems out of line considering everything.
 

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sean1 said:
He will get bail.

He has no criminal record.

He is the CEO of a publicly traded company in the UK.

The UK just helped with an extradition of 3 Enron guys.

If this guy does not get bail (He would in the UK and if he was a US citizen he would) it is possible that the UK takes their signature off the extradition treaty that has already pissed so many people off and that Washington has not signed..

I expect bail with a monitoring device and then I expect some kind of escape out of the U.S. It can not be impossible to work with those devices with $millions...

-Sean

I knew guys facing less time who voluntarily returned who did not get bail because they were dual citizens. They really don;'t like to give bail to foreigners, especially if they think the UK would not extradite him for this.

Who cares if they are a public company? That means nothing. That
s like their ads, they thought it was such a big deal.
 
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sean1 said:
I expect bail with a monitoring device and then I expect some kind of escape out of the U.S. It can not be impossible to work with those devices with $millions...

-Sean

Sean, you've been really informative on this issue up until this comment.

Without a passport, you can't go far (especially with 10 feds watching your every move).
 

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doug stewart said:
Xpanda,
I think you may have something there, but your points are contradictory. On the one hand, the US will have to entice the offshore operators to open up businesses here when and if the US legalizes internet gambling. So if the DoJ makes arrests and makes certain offshore operators ineligible to open shops in the US, they will just insure that operators stay offshore.

Personally, I don't think the US govt has anything to fear about getting US operators for internet gambling should they legalize it. All the casinos in NV would love to get into the action.

I think about how the Brits went about it, and go from there. They allow offshore gaming to exist in the Isle of Man, Alderney, etc, which are – to some extent – separate tax entities from England itself. In the past, they've had to lax already lax tax laws in order to draw business to their shores.

The ONLY reason any nation would legalise betting is to reap the tax rewards. (Let's face it, gov'ts are in the business of making money and increasing power, period.) In the current climate, the US gov't would have to compete with the likes of CR and Antigua who have made whole industries out of lax tax/regulatory environments for their betting businesses. In order for the US market to compete – or, in order to turn the US not only into a market of customers, but also a market of service providers - they need to provide incentives. I don't imagine that the US is prepared to loosen its tax laws for this industry specifically – at least not enough to be truly competitive. One way around the issue would be to regulate that only those companies who have no criminal records on staff can compete (a fair argument in the eyes of the WTO) and to set a precedent that would enable the US to effectively prohibit any current US-facing operations from competing at that time.

For all intents and purposes, the US gov't doesn't like to 'get involved' in business where it can't dominate. In order to dominate, it must effectively change the competitive environment. This would be one way to do it.
 

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