Blue Jays manager has to go at the end of the year.

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"I like ketchup. It's like tomato wine."
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Lilly-Gibbons argument leaves manager bloodied
Associated Press

TORONTO -- Blue Jays manager John Gibbons wound up with a bloody nose after tangling with Toronto pitcher Ted Lilly near the dugout during Monday night's game against Oakland.
mlb_bluejays_275.jpg


AP Photo/Aaron Harris
Lilly (left) reacts negatively as manager Gibbons tries to take him out of the game in the third inning on Monday night.

After the game, Lilly said to reporters, "There were no punches thrown."

Lilly was pulled in the third inning, when the Athletics scored seven runs to close to 8-7 on the way to a 12-10 win. Gibbons chewed out the pitcher, who refused to give him the ball.

When Lilly left the mound for the locker room, Gibbons followed him. A team trainer and a number of players then ran down the stairs. Cameramen near the dugout saw Gibbons push Lilly first.

Canadian Press photographer Aaron Harris, one of a handful of photographers to witness the skirmish, said Lilly was waiting for Gibbons in the tunnel leading to the clubhouse.

"Gibbons just went at him," Harris said. "It looked like Gibbons grabbed him and they disappeared. Then the whole dugout emptied back there. It was mayhem down in the tunnel."

Interviewed after the game, Gibbons declined to give details of the incident but said, "We've hashed all that out."

Lilly said that his manager was not happy with how he was throwing.

"At a time I was already upset with myself, I didn't handle it well at the time. It wasn't very good, but this thing could have gone over a little better if I would have held my emotions."

Blue Jays outfielder Vernon Wells tried to downplay the brawl.

"Two guys were upset," he said. "It happens at home and it happens here. That's life. You just have to deal with it."

Gibbons challenged Shea Hillenbrand to a fight in July after the infielder wrote on the clubhouse bulletin board that the "ship was sinking." Hillenbrand declined to fight, and was later traded to San Francisco.
 

30 point quarters
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Gibbons is such a ***... wat type of manager just tries to fight any of his players that has a disagreement with him
 

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Good situation for a guy like Lou Pinella I think.
 

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Lilly also should have just left game when manager came for him. Did he really think he deserved to stay in game after giving up 7 runs in 2 2/3rds!!??? Both idiots there. My under 87.5 on Jays is feeling better every day!
 

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bulldog77 said:
Lilly also should have just left game when manager came for him. Did he really think he deserved to stay in game after giving up 7 runs in 2 2/3rds!!??? Both idiots there. My under 87.5 on Jays is feeling better every day!

I agree 100%.

You can't show up your coach on the mound when he takes you out after getting shelled and giving up a 9 run lead.
 

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bulldog77 said:
Lilly also should have just left game when manager came for him. Did he really think he deserved to stay in game after giving up 7 runs in 2 2/3rds!!??? Both idiots there. My under 87.5 on Jays is feeling better every day!

Lilly had given up 5 runs. Reliever came in and let his inherited runners score.

Probably inappropriate to argue after getting hammered but Gibbons has a history of pulling starters early and I guess Lilly thought he deserved a chance to get the victory. They apparently resolved their differences after the game and Lilly will still be in the rotation.
 

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Clip Joint said:
I agree 100%.

You can't show up your coach on the mound when he takes you out after getting shelled and giving up a 9 run lead.


Agreed, but to go chasing after your player in the middle of a game is not the best move. Lilly was wrong for what he did but Gibbons should have waited till they both cooled off to talk to him. It's not like this hasn't happened before with another player. (Hillenbrand)

Blue hit the nail on the head with the Billy Martin comment.
 

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Yea...the manager is a hothead for sure and had no right going after him. But I get sick of these cry baby overpaid athletes. Just get a few people out and you would still be pitching.

Billy Martin would get his ass kicked...that is the only difference. :lolBIG:
 

"I like ketchup. It's like tomato wine."
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Clip Joint said:
Billy Martin would get his ass kicked...that is the only difference. :lolBIG:


And then went drinking with the guy. :lolBIG:
 

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The problem aint knuckles mcgee, when the manager asks for the ball, HAND IT OVER.
 

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Hpark1:
He was credited with the 6th and 7th runs because he put them on. Either way any manger would have yanked him after that putrid display of pitching. Actually, manager saved Lilly from being credited with the loss which he was most of the way to being credited with!
 

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Manager should have just let it go by(player showing him up on mound) and then suspended and fined his ass seriously later. Gibbons should realize he is in management and not one of the boys(jocks) . He should be above that crap and handle things intelligently not in a physical throw down like some stupid jock which , unfortunately, is what a significant percentage of any major league roster is made up of.
That having been said I can see where Gibbons would have a hard time not reacting the way he did. Of course, I don't know the history between the two before yesterday.
On enote about Hillebrand: I wonder how he is reacting to playing with the king of all prima donna jack asses in Frisco?! A little of the ASS Hole previously known as Bonds might make him wish he were back with jays.
 

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bulldog77 said:
Hpark1:
He was credited with the 6th and 7th runs because he put them on. Either way any manger would have yanked him after that putrid display of pitching. Actually, manager saved Lilly from being credited with the loss which he was most of the way to being credited with!

I'm aware he was credited with the 6th and 7th runs, I mentioned the reliever allowed those inherited runners to score.

My point is the score was still 8-5 when Lilly was on the mound. Sure he was giving up hits but he wasn't wild, personally I don't believe you pull him there. Toronto's bullpen has been a disaster all year (minus BJ Ryan) and the unwritten rule in baseball is to allow veteran starters every possible opportunity to pick up a W when they have the lead.

And as I mentioned Gibbons loves to yank his starters early. There is a history of this tendancy from Gibbons. He shows no trust to his pitchers, and in turn they don't care for him. If a tough jam develops he'll never ride it out. Even Cy young winner Roy Halladay doesn't have this guy's trust. I remember a game a few weeks ago where Gibbons came to the mound with the intention of pulling Roy Halladay. Halladay looked irritated and basically told him he wasn't leaving and Gibbons knew his role and had to agree. Their second best reliever Justin Speier also had an incident at the mound when Gibbons prematurely decided to pull him.

Bottom line is Gibbons is just a poor manager (not even taking into account his temper) and needs to be fired. Getting rid of JP Richardi also wouldn't be a bad idea.
 

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