Response from Nevada Senator H.R. 4411

Kiss1 · Aug 28, 2006

This is an official communication from the Office of Senator John
Ensign.
Any tampering or alteration of this communication is prohibited and may
result in criminal investigation or prosecution.

August 28, 2006

( My name and Address cut )

Thank you for contacting me about legislation to prohibit online
gaming.
I value the opinions of every Nevadan and am always grateful to those
who
take the time to inform me of their views.

For several years, Congress has been considering Internet gaming
legislation which would modernize current law and expand the scope of
prohibited activities for facilitating online gaming. Thus far, none
of
these bills have been signed into law. Most of the estimated 1,500
Internet gaming sites operate in offshore locations - likely beyond the
reach of U.S. law enforcement and the rules and regulations that apply
to
American casinos.

As legislation has come before the Senate in past years, I worked to
ensure that the proposals did not unfairly discriminate against certain
forms of gaming, such as the casinos located in our state, while
favoring
others, such as gaming on Indian reservations and race tracks.
Furthermore, it is vital that individual states maintain the right to
regulate gaming operations within their borders.

On July 11, 2006, the House of Representatives passed the Unlawful
Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (H.R. 4411). This bill would attempt
to
prohibit financial transactions from taking place in connection with
unlawful Internet gambling. If enacted into law, this bill may not
stop
illegal gambling because technology moves so fast and overseas
operators
have been very clever in devising alternate payment schemes to
circumvent
regulations. I am especially concerned about keeping illegal Internet
gambling away from children, and I will be evaluating various proposals
as
they come before the Senate, including H.R. 4411.

Thank you again for contacting me. I will keep your thoughts, as well
as
those of all Nevadans, in mind as I serve our state in the Senate.
Should
you have any other questions or comments or would like to sign up for
my
monthly newsletter, please do not hesitated to either write or e-mail
me
via my website at http://ensign.senate.gov.

Sincerely,

JOHN ENSIGN
United States Senator

sean1 · Aug 28, 2006

He should take that letter and whack all those House Reps in the back of the head. Maybe some common sense will stick.

-Sean

sean1 · Aug 28, 2006

Unless you have mom's credit card, how do you gamble under 18 online?

You can't send a bank wire if you are under 18 (Someone 18 must cosign)

You can't get a credit card unless someone cosigns (Then bill goes to 18+)

You can't use Western Union as far as I know if you are under 18 as you must sign a contract...

-Sean

TomBrady#1 · Aug 28, 2006

reply back and tell him that is a cop out. There are many other factors involved here that dominate this topic. Tell him they cannot stop it and millions will break the law. Tell that plenty of other countries have legalized it and it is not a problem. Using children as a defense is pathetic. Tell him.

Kiss1 · Aug 28, 2006

It's especially funny reading that Ensign wants to keep kids away from internet gambling in this state.

Mom and Dad are slamming coins into slot machines at the local 7/11.

Get Real Senator!

Fishhead · Aug 28, 2006

sean1 said:
Unless you have mom's credit card, how do you gamble under 18 online?

You can't send a bank wire if you are under 18 (Someone 18 must cosign)

You can't get a credit card unless someone cosigns (Then bill goes to 18+)

You can't use Western Union as far as I know if you are under 18 as you must sign a contract...

-Sean

EXACTLY!

So very sick of hearing the following over and over from political figures.........

I am especially concerned about keeping illegal Internet
gambling away from children, and I will be evaluating various proposals
as they come before the Senate, including H.R. 4411.

Whoson1st · Aug 28, 2006

We MUST protect the children!

Whatever it is, wherever it is, whenever it is and whoever it is: when they can think of nothing else to say (even WITHOUT knowing the facts)--one of the
ALL TIME FAVORITE statements : WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN!

I agree you agee Uncle Harry and Aunt Betty agree, Preacher Jones and schoolteacher Smith and generally ALL of society agrees.

The single most worn out phrase of politicians.

Wynn · Aug 29, 2006

Yes, when a child is 17, he must be protected from the evils of gambling. But a year later, put a uniform on him and a gun in his hand and send him off to kill people.

WildBill · Aug 29, 2006

It's an utter waste of time to debate this or waste your time writing a Nevada Rep or Senator on this. They are all going to stay in lockstep with whatever the AGA says. I know someone on the AGA board who showed me the minutes and details from their meeting which changed their official stance on internet gambling and this is pretty much just copying key points from it.

GreenDoberman · Aug 29, 2006

Dear Mr. Ensign,
Please remove all Kids Quest's and Arcades from the casinos here in Nevada. We want to protect our children from the evils of gambling. It seems they are just as easily accessible to a slot machine outside a movie theater in a local casino than they are of stealing their parents credit card, wading through the internet and placing a bet.
I'm sure you will agree with this request as you are VERY SINCERE in protecting our children.

Thank you,
A card-carrying Libertarian
Green Doberman

GreenDoberman · Aug 29, 2006

P.S. It is time you started a crusade against online pornography, any site dealing with terrorism or bomb-making, and those awful rap lyrics as well that no doubt influence our feeble children's minds because they are unable to make their own decisions or rely on proper parenting to make them as well. I'm sure you will agree that our extremely efficient government knows what is best for our children.

Sincerely,
Mao-Tse Tung
Chairman, China

sean1 · Aug 29, 2006

Yeah, I was just at TI a few months ago - that place is like a Disneyland. Nothing like a big tropical bar for dad right next to a giant arcade 20 yards from a giant casino!!!

-Sean

OMNIVOROUS FROG · Aug 29, 2006

Thanks for trying Kissee, I have received responses from both The Honorable Barbara Boxer and The Honorable Diane Feinstein. Probably both written by aides but Feinstein's was fairly well written so I replied back.

Best Wishes...OF :howdy:

FairWarning · Aug 29, 2006

Same exact letter I got from Fred Upton (R-Mich).

AlwaysKeen · Aug 29, 2006

the letter didn't really say anything...typical political BS...

OMNIVOROUS FROG · Aug 29, 2006

Sadly, not many Honorable Senators actually answer their own mail. That is left for the aides. Many use a form type system, that is passed around. But be that as it may, I still fire away. Here is my original letter to my State Senators.

To the Honorable Senator Feinstein;

I am writing you concerning the upcoming vote, if it indeed makes it to the floor to be voted on, on the Anti-Gambling bill recently passed by the House of Representatives. Out of the 32 choices above I found none referring to gambling so I chose Civil Liberties/Rights. I am at a loss how this is even moving forward. Don't we have much more important issues, like the 32 listed issues/topics? Where does the average American prioritize this issue? Not in the top 32 concerns, judging by your choices.

This is a no win situation for all. The WTO has already ruled against the United States, and somehow we are above their rulings or laws. I am at a loss of how this can occur, when we are becoming a global society. If any other country was to totally ignore a world body everyone would be alarmed. But it is ok if the U.S. does. Second, this is being pushed along under the American values package. But those values seem to include state lotteries, which can also be bet across state lines and horse racing. So we need the government to tell us which gambling is good for us, and which is bad. Every survey ever done on lotteries have stated those who can least afford it lose the most. I think this creates a lot of doubt that this is sincerely a law to help people from gambling. And it casts an obvious doubt of the governments true intentions.

Speaking of credibility, have you watched any of the World Series of Poker? This is where people just scoff. Placing tape over .com or making entrants wear their shirts inside out is ridiculous, and yet a highly watched and participated in event. Very similar to a don't ask, don't tell policy. How many of these entrants originated from these illegal poker sites? And changing them to .net does not fool anyone. For every .net is a .com, and I would think not many of the viewers make the distinction. To put it bluntly, it appears to be a bad joke.

I think this is another misguided form of prohibition to something that is extremely popular, and gaining momentum. The last time we forced prohibition on the American public it led to one of the most lawlessness eras in our country's history. The people did not stop drinking, they drank even more, it enriched criminals, and became a public health threat as people often drank dangerous substitutes. If we have learned anything it is prohibition does not work.

It would appear we are the only country that is pursuing this course. And it also appears to be a dangerous course with a collision inevitable. I have read many Senators feelings on this over the years, and from what I gather most feel it's unenforcable. Do we really have the resources to have so many wars? War on drugs, war in Iraq, and homeland security seem to be enough, since we might to be losing all of those already. I feel a lot of backlash from the recent arrest of David Carruthers. The British people are calling our great country dangerous. How can we just violate WTO rulings, and arrest Britsh subjects on a layover on our soil? I thought the Britsh were our staunchest allies? We just decimated anyone who held that stock, institutional or normal citizens. Maybe pursuing bestiality would have been less harmful to our allies.

In closing I thank you in advance for your time. I hope you convey my concerns and thoughts to the Senate. We seem to furthur damage any friendships we have left in the rest of the world, and erode our own rights as well. I hope I did not needlessly rant and my points were clear. My morale as an American is at an all time low. Please do not remove one of my last diversions.

Of course I switched names for each Honorable senator, and no, I did not close them, Best Wishes...OF.

Here are the two responses...

Dear Mr. Omnivorous Frog:

Thank you for contacting me regarding Internet gambling. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your views on this issue.

As you may know, on July 11, 2006, the House of Representatives passed H.R.4411, the Internet Gambling Prohibition and Enforcement Act. This bill would prohibit financial institutions from processing payments for online wagers. H.R.4411 would also amend the 1961 Wire Act, which outlawed gambling over telephone lines, to specifically include the Internet.

The Senate will now begin considering H.R.4411. Please know that I will keep your views in mind when this bill comes to the Senate floor.

Again, thank you for writing to me. Do not hesitate to contact me again about this or any other issue of concern to you.

[SIZE=+1]Barbara Boxer
United States Senator

Please visit my website at http://boxer.senate.gov

And...

Dear Mr. Omni Frog:

Thank you for contacting me regarding Internet gambling. I
appreciate your thoughts and views on this topic and welcome the
opportunity to respond.

There is no doubt that the Internet and related technologies have
had a remarkable effect on the U.S. economy in recent years. Commerce
on the Internet has enhanced American industry=s ability to distribute
goods economically and efficiently. The continuing development of this
industry in California has provided hundreds of thousands of new, well-
paying jobs, and I am committed to strengthening online commerce and
preserving and expanding this vital job base.

While I understand your thoughts on internet gambling, I have
supported legislation aimed at curbing Internet gambling during my
tenure in the Senate. There advent of the Internet has clearly been
beneficial to American society, however, I believe the same cannot be
said for Internet-based gambling activity. Internet gambling is too easily
accessible to minors, too subject to fraud and criminal misuse, and too
easily evades state gambling laws. The "Internet Gambling Prohibition
Act" (H.R. 4777) is currently under consideration by the Judiciary
Committee in the U.S. House of Representatives, and at this time, there
is no companion legislation in the Senate. While we do not necessarily
agree on this particular topic, please know that I will certainly keep your
thoughts in mind should this particular bill be considered by the Senate
in the 109th Congress.

Again, thank you for your letter. I hope that you will continue to
write on matters of importance to you. Should you have further
questions or comments on this or any other issue, please do not hesitate
to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841.

Sincerely yours,

Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

http://feinstein.senate.gov

Further information about my position on issues of concern to California and the Nation are available at my website
http://feinstein.senate.gov. You can also receive electronic e-mail updates by subscribing to my e-mail list at
http://feinstein.senate.gov/issue.html.

I did write a response to this one. As the Honorable Senator Feinstein does have a long record of supporting this farce. So I attempted to enlighten her as to reality and perception may have differences. She also threw in the protect the children line.

Senator Feinstein,

I truly appreciate your reply and it's honesty. Although your reply was much later than Senator Boxer's, it was worth the wait. But your reason's for supporting this bill, and anti gambling bills overall, is flawed. Where public service and senatorial duties are your arena, gambling is mine. I just can't segregate gambling from the Internet potpourri of threats to kids. In fact, I would put it much lower than hate or racist sites, porn, child porn, chat rooms etc. It is very difficult for a child to even access a betting account, as they are all id and password protected. Even less likely a child could open an account or fund one. But those other areas are wide open. It makes a good sound bite with the threat to kids connection, but that is not reality based.

Fraud. Who gets burned if someone defrauds an offshore sportsbook? The sportsbook, or the credit card company. Who also get hit with id theft and other schemes constantly. If you support a bill to deter id theft, a real concern among your supporters, you will be my heroine. But that is not a good connection either, as fraud is not commonplace any longer. There was a charge back issue, but that has been corrected. Like any other glitch, everyone is there to exploit it.

Last, the control argument. Fine, regulate it. Legalize it like the rest of the Western world. But if you think there is no control now, push it underground and it all turns into a shady cash black market. Do you think people will stop betting or playing poker if somehow the law is actually passed? It will just rollback to the way it was before the Internet, and there is no regulation there either. Just like prohibition, the public will ignore it, and the authorities will be unable to enforce it. I hope you do realize this is generally unenforceable. And where will these resources to enforce it come from? Are we taking away from home security? Are we going to force corporations to monitor everyone's banking transactions? They don't have the manpower to even dream about that. They are already overloaded looking for everything else unpatriotic. And how much will all of this cost?

In closing I would like to again thank you for your well thought out response. I know we are on opposite sides here, but I respect your opinion without hesitation. Well, maybe a brief moment of reflection. I just have a problem with so much time and effort fighting something successful, that is actually accepted by the general public. The WSOP is a glaring example. Half the entrants probably originate from sites that will be illegal. The winner wore a BoDog shirt, another well known offshore book. This is ESPN, and National news. A card playing version of who wants to be a multimillionaire. How many of these card players are criminals? A threat to anyone? I am at a loss why we spend so much time and energy curtailing our own freedoms when the real pressing issues just linger. No offshore gambler is yelling "Death to America". Nor is he mired in a sinkhole of National funds that seems to be an out of control civil war with no end in site. Meth? Pedophiles? The threats to our great country are not poker players or sports bettors. We just lose our money.

Best Wishes...OF :howdy:

[/SIZE]

Wynn · Aug 29, 2006

O. Frog, I congratulate you on your cogent and well-written letters. You expressed all the major arguments for voting against an online anti-gambling bill very clearly.

One subtle point in Senator Feinstein's response is worth noting. The letter refers to her support for HR4777 which is being debated in the House Judiciary Committee. While this bill has far worse consequences for the individual gambler, it has no chance of making it to the Senate next month.

HR4411 which targets financial institutions and websites is the bill which has been placed on the September 5, 2006 Senate calendar.

This may be a case of a careless staffer confusing the two bills but you never know.

OMNIVOROUS FROG · Aug 29, 2006

kwalder said:
O. Frog, I congratulate you on your cogent and well-written letters. You expressed all the major arguments for voting against an online anti-gambling bill very clearly.

One subtle point in Senator Feinstein's response is worth noting. The letter refers to her support for HR4777 which is being debated in the House Judiciary Committee. While this bill has far worse consequences for the individual gambler, it has no chance of making it to the Senate next month.

HR4411 which targets financial institutions and websites is the bill which has been placed on the September 5, 2006 Senate calendar.

This may be a case of a careless staffer confusing the two bills but you never know.

Nice catch. Probably chose wrong bill response error by aide. All those gambling bills are the same to them. If I had the time and resources I would run a petition, or organize a sports bettors against HR4411. But in this standalone battle my E-Mails are the limit of my participation. It is the best I can do. I will not sit here without trying. If this is how I can voice my opinion to my duly elected representatives then that is the game I will play. I prefer capping.

Best wishes...OF :howdy:

zerocage · Aug 29, 2006

If bettors were slipping $$$$ in their pockets and not horse tracks, cristian coalition, etc , there wouldn't be a bill.

BCTTWR · Aug 29, 2006

Sen. Fienstein never saw your letter. One of her many lackey's read it and sent you a canned response.

The Sen. Ensign arguement about saving the children does not pass the mustard. The bill allows internet lotteries and horse race betting. Save the kids from betting on the super bowl but buying lottery tickets and betting win, place, show is fine.