Seminole Hard Rock Full of Shit?

I wouldn't trust any of the Indian casinos. I know people that won jackpots at these bullshit casinos only to be told that they cheated.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Posted on Thu, Sep. 14, 2006</TD><TD width=15 rowSpan=7> </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>
SEMINOLE HARD ROCK CASINO
No payoff in jackpot dispute
A casino player will learn Friday if his 'Swipe & Win' at the Seminole Hard Rock is confirmed as a `Swipe & Lose.'
By ROBERTO SANTIAGO
rsantiago@MiamiHerald.com

<!-- begin body-content -->Freddy Howard had high hopes that his Wednesday meeting with officials of the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino would result in a big jackpot.
It didn't.
Instead, CEO Jim Allen told Howard and his attorney that the casino had hired an independent outside agency to examine Howard's claim that he won nearly $260,000 in a ''Swipe & Win'' progressive jackpot computer system on Aug. 29.
''They were kind enough to offer me nothing,'' Howard said after the 40-minute meeting with Allen.
''We cannot pay jackpots unless we have proper verification,'' said Allen, who admitted casino employees did not follow standard procedure to verify -- via the computer system -- that Howard won a prize.
''When you win, you win. And when you lose, you lose,'' Allen said in an afternoon press conference.
If the independent computer analysis decides that Howard did indeed win, Allen said he would sign the check for $259,945.75.
The analysis is expected to be completed on Friday, and that's when Howard will learn whether he's a winner or loser.
Neither side disputes the following series of events that took place:
After swiping his Player's Club card in a ''Swipe & Win'' kiosk, Howard saw words on the screen indicating he was a winner.
He approached casino employees, whowho congratulated him, had him sign promotional forms and photographed him holding a giant cardboard check with the amount of $259,945.75.
But 15 hours later, casino officials told Howard it was all a mistake, there was a computer glitch.
At dispute is what reallywas displayed on the computer screen after Howard swiped his card in the kiosk.
Howard said he and casino staff saw these words:
``Congratulations You've Just Won Progressive Winner.''
But casino officials say there was one all-important digit at the end of the message that everyone missed.
``Congratulations You've Just Won Progressive Winner $0.''
They gave Howard and his attorney a copy of what they said was flashed on the screen.
Howard's attorney, Keith Herbert, scoffed at the idea that the screen flashed a zero at the end of the message.
''What machine congratulates you for being a loser?'' Herbert asked.
Allen had no explanation why the ''Swipe & Win'' kiosk would display a winning message with a zero, according to spokesman Gary Bitner.
And no one offered an explanation of where casino employees got the $259,975.75 figure. The top prize given on the ''Swipe & Win'' kiosk was for that amount.
The Seminole Tribal Gaming Commission has hired Gaming Laboratories International, a respected firm that specializes in examining computer systems associated with gaming, to examine the computer system.
Allen also could not explain why casino employees did not follow standard procedure in verifying a win -- as they have done so numerous times since the casino opened in 2004.
Verification involves checking the log of the promotional computers progressive system and then getting approval from top casino executives.
''[The casino employees] became caught up in the excitement of the event,'' Allen explained.
Howard said Allen made no promises, other than vague suggestions that if he came back to gamble they would make him feel right at home.
''I was quite angry and disappointed,'' Howard said of his meeting with Allen.
Herbert said that if his client is told he is not getting any money that he may resort to his original idea: picket the casino with a copy of the large cardboard $259,945.75 check he was given with the words scrawled: Give Me A Real Check!
''You can't sue the Seminoles for getting your hopes up and then bringing them down,'' said Tampa attorney Jack Gordon, who has sued the Seminoles numerous times throughout the years.
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This happens often in Nevada. No one ever wins in court though. These systems are built to be pretty much foolproof. You might not trust the tribes, but the people who provide them with systems have hundreds of licenses worldwide and aren't going to provide a device to one customer that allows them to cheat. GLI and other regulators check for this vigorously and if there was any way to do it the products wouldn't be approved. The only way the Seminoles could have cheated in this case was to basically deny paying a jackpot that legitimately said it happened, something which GLI will almost surely be able to determine.

I am not talking about winning in court. I am talking about the lack of integrity by the Indians. There is no casino control commission. Anyone that puts a dime in their machines is a sucker. They regulate themselves. No way those machines pay over 70%.

There was a group of ex professional blackjack players that made millions of dollars playing the Seminole lotto progressives. The machines are totally
legitimate. If you played the progressive at a low number you lost money
but the meters move up at a rate of 5% for every dollar wagered. When the progressive reached a profitable number the pros swooped in and took seats as the regular customers got broke. The Hard Rock formerly the Hollywood Seminole Casino which is across the street provided a very profitable living for these pros for many years. They lowered the meter progression so there isn't as many plays as there were before. They also took out many of the progressive banks. There are still a few pros around who play what's left. There was no question of the machines honesty.

Kenny B said:

I am not talking about winning in court. I am talking about the lack of integrity by the Indians. There is no casino control commission. Anyone that puts a dime in their machines is a sucker. They regulate themselves. No way those machines pay over 70%.

Click to expand...

Absolutely correct. They can have them payback as little as 10% if they want, and in fact that is the figure often thrown around by people that used to be associated with them.

my brother won a 22k progressive at the old place. I have never hit one myself, but I was part owner of 4 progressive jackpots a few years back. There were 16 machines linked to one progressive and when it hit $12000 it became positive. That is when me and a small group would grab a machine and feed $100 bills into it until someone hit the progressive. Our 4 wins were all in the $14k-22k range.

If you played the progressive at a low number you lost money

Lets be clear. I never have nor would I ever play their machines. I am not complaining because I have lost there.

Someone always wins at every casino, no matter who low the payout is but you can't tell me these machines pay anywhere near 90%.

For the record I am talking about the one in Tampa, they used to be ran by a management company, PanAm I believe it was. Pretty sure they ran other one's as well. Even way back then the state came in and told them they could have high stakes poker (they used to have nothing but 25/50 cent) if the Indians would allow them to regulate the machines they had. Of course the Indians said no, why would you give up your bread and butter for poker.

This was a bit ago, I doubt things have changed much though. You wouldn't catch me on a machine in that place for all the money in the world. The state has offered to make them legit, for some reason they wanted no part of it.

I have seen many a jackpot or big poker tourney win hit there and not get paid until later because of NO ID. It personally burns the employee who then wouldn't make shit even if they got paid later when they come in with ID.