U.S. Legislation -- What does the RX suggest we do?

Nobody is going to do anything but the same ole, same ole. A law in place will stop no one and they have nothing in place to stop anyone from doing anything. It will take years to implement the first law.

It will take years to implement the first law.<!-- / message -->

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Absolutely correct..Sugarbear right on as usual.



wil..

Sugarbear said:

Nobody is going to do anything but the same ole, same ole. A law in place will stop no one and they have nothing in place to stop anyone from doing anything. It will take years to implement the first law.

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SB--Could you speak more on this, and mainly what you mean by saying it will "take years to implement the first law".

Thanks,
-FH-

ps--how did the the parlay turn out yesterday?

Fishhead said:

SB--Could you speak more on this, and mainly what you mean by saying it will "take years to implement the first law".

Thanks,
-FH-

ps--how did the the parlay turn out yesterday?

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The first law is the banking law and the key one. They are making a law to block tranactions on a system that does not have the frst thing in place to be able to do so. So, the first thing they have to do is redesign the system so it can catch transactions that the goverment does not want its people to make.

Also, there are no criminal penalties if caught letting unapproved transaction thru. Its just a law that says stop this from happening, try your best. In addition, the law makes banks in the US responsible for knowing where the money went at all times. I.E. from the US to Neteller, Netteller to your SB account and then to where ever the place of buisness
you play at banks. US banks are responsible for stopping the tranactions any point in the chain.


Who is going to lead this program? What kind of paperwork will it take to prove compliance? Who is drawing up this paperwork and who is making the rules of audit that go with it.



The US expects these banks to just do this at a drop of a hat also. Like they know all the offshore places and how everything works and can stop it nest se' pas. Its what the gov has the public at large believeing.


Its a law that has no teeth and will stop no one. In addition if they do arrest a banker or two, the system collaspes in a hurry due to simple paranoia and being afraid I am next.


Fishhead, if you remember the early 6A days and how unorganized it was and how clueless the people they deputized to adminster it were, then you understand where I am coming from. A deputization that just came to an end here because REG 6A is off the books here now.

You will want to read my wrap up piece, under the Nevada gives up its autonomy thread on MW. I am completly upset and will be reffering to the two people whom are credited in bringing the need for the law to exist, in Lefty and Scott. A must read wrap up for any and all VOG's.


That was just Vegas, with a ton of Feds plus other support in the background, to help try to implement it, and work thru the different problems that came up. In a small town at the time, with not even a third of whats out there today to train.


You know how hard it is just to keep your employees up to speed on things and trained correctly, can you imagine over 5000 banks in this country and all it personel including support staff trying to police this stuff.


NEVER.

Thanks my friend, very interesting and thought provoking.

Sugarbear said:

The first law is the banking law and the key one. They are making a law to block tranactions on a system that does not have the frst thing in place to be able to do so. So, the first thing they have to do is redesign the system so it can catch transactions that the goverment does not want its people to make.

Also, there are no criminal penalties if caught letting unapproved transaction thru. Its just a law that says stop this from happening, try your best. In addition, the law makes banks in the US responsible for knowing where the money went at all times. I.E. from the US to Neteller, Netteller to your SB account and then to where ever the place of buisness
you play at banks. US banks are responsible for stopping the tranactions any point in the chain.


Who is going to lead this program? What kind of paperwork will it take to prove compliance? Who is drawing up this paperwork and who is making the rules of audit that go with it.



The US expects these banks to just do this at a drop of a hat also. Like they know all the offshore places and how everything works and can stop it nest se' pas. Its what the gov has the public at large believeing.


Its a law that has no teeth and will stop no one. In addition if they do arrest a banker or two, the system collaspes in a hurry due to simple paranoia and being afraid I am next.


Fishhead, if you remember the early 6A days and how unorganized it was and how clueless the people they deputized to adminster it were, then you understand where I am coming from. A deputization that just came to an end here because REG 6A is off the books here now.

You will want to read my wrap up piece, under the Nevada gives up its autonomy thread on MW. I am completly upset and will be reffering to the two people whom are credited in bringing the need for the law to exist, in Lefty and Scott. A must read wrap up for any and all VOG's.


That was just Vegas, with a ton of Feds plus other support in the background, to help try to implement it, and work thru the different problems that came up. In a small town at the time, with not even a third of whats out there today to train.


You know how hard it is just to keep your employees up to speed on things and trained correctly, can you imagine over 5000 banks in this country and all it personel including support staff trying to police this stuff.


NEVER.

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thanks SB!!! for the info post

MasterShakes said:

I would like to know what the general stance is regarding what we should do if/when the U.S. anti-gamblign legislation passes. Will there be a "run on the bank" so to speak? Will we be able to get our money out fast enough? Should we try to get our money out fast? Will Neteller complete transactions to and from U.S. bank accounts?

The books I am currently using are Sports Interaction, Pinnacle and Mansion. I'm not very worried about Pinny or Mansion, but I do wonder about SIA. Will they pay out if it's clear they are permanently losing U.S. customers?
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on a side note

if your worried about that if this bill passes then just withdraw it to your neteller debitcard....when it gets transferred to the card its not in neteller anymore and you can withdraw it anytime thru any atm

Fishhead said:

Thanks my friend, very interesting and thought provoking.

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No problem, Fish and Dante. The main problem in the society today is that people feel it will end the very next day, if the laws passed. Most will run scared thinking the Feds are coming to get them, instead of the forgiegn citizens they have been kidnapping and holding political hostage.


It is a ton more likely the Feds will be going after Microsoft to achive there goals. Its illegal in Washington St to recieve and or transmit gambling information. This makes Bill Gates a contributer to illegal gambling enterprises. When Washington St starts going after the bettors there, they will charge Gates with all kinds of things and try to force him to disable links to gambling sites. Of course he will not be able to just limit it to Washington St and with the Feds backing them, it could get dicey.


Dont worry though. I have answers as to what to do if it comes down to it.

Thank you for your response, Sugarbear. I truly hope you are right. I'd hate it if the government kept me from my favorite pasttime.

Sugarbear said:

In addition, the law makes banks in the US responsible for knowing where the money went at all times. I.E. from the US to Neteller, Netteller to your SB account and then to where ever the place of buisness you play at banks. US banks are responsible for stopping the tranactions any point in the chain.

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How is that even possible, unless US banks can somehow force Neteller et al to hand over their transaction records to them? And won't the privacy rights of their host nations come into play here?

If this law passes, here is what will change:

Now, I can walk into my bank and say wire XXX amount to ibetsportsandthegovernmenthatesit.com

If the law passes, I will have to say to my bank wire XXX amount to account 123353554 at Bank of Caracao. Thanks.

The law is a complete joke. I spoke to a reasonably high up exec at National City and she told me there is absolutely no way they can enforce it. As of now, there are 12 countries the US does not want people to wire funds to and this is why if we want to wire to Costa Rica, we use an intermediate like England. She told me there is absolutely no way they can decide where money goes once it gets to England and further it would break international banking laws if a bank here tried to tell a bank elsewhere what to do with funds.

The US could block banks from wiring money to a middle bank if a final destination is a country on a list, but with sportsbooks in 100+ countries (And they will move to do business (BOS had offices in Antigua just to pick up cash since CR is already on the list)) blocking every country with sportsbook would anihilate global commerce.

That being said, there may be a small run on some books as people panic so I would try not to have significant balances in books that may or may not be financial in great shape.

Sean

Also, the list of 12 countries are based on 2 reasons:

1. They harbor terrorists (Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, etc)
2. They do not follow normal world banking regulations (Costa Rica) and thus make money laundering, drug money, terrorist money easy.

No country is on there for gambling. If the US wanted to block every country that allows online gambling, they would have to block 75+ countries and 80% of the world including all of Europe except France, Australia and New Zealand, all of central America, parts of South America, most of Africa, most of Asia, and Canada.
-Sean

There is a reason Bill built Microsoft 10 miles from Canada.

For years and years, he paid his employees extra to live in Canada.

He did this because of monopoly concerns, but if they go after Bill and Microsoft and tell Bill to regulate the internet, it would not be surprising to see Microsoft head north.

Sean

And finally, if you still believe banks can regulate this stuff, go to your bank and take out $20K in cash. It will take them 30-60 minutes to get the cash, fill out the forms, call some phone number to verify everything, have your signature faxed in, etc.

If you think these people who take an hour to give you $20K are going to block 10s of millions of transactions to places they don't know while the places they don't know are doing everything to move their accounts around and allow the transactions, I have some sand I'd like to sell you in a desert.

Sean

Sean, for the record CR is NOT on the list that cant receive wires from the US

I get them regularly and besides, the US is CR number ONE commercial partner........we get most of our imports from there and that's where most of our exports go, if we couldnt receive wires from the US .........things here would be a LOT different

The reason Betonsports had operations in Antigua is because they were licensed by the gaming commision there.

One thing I have not heard anybody in this thread mention however is that the first thing banks will do (it seems to me) is cease doing business with Neteller, Firpay, etc. That move, in and of itself, will cause a real inconvenience to gamblers. Of course, I agree there a ways around it but we should expect this action to occur quickly if legislation passes.

Also, I haven't figured out exactly what we will do if eventually ISP's are forced to block internet access to books. That will be a real problem for the average players. Just my two cents.

One thing that occurs to me is if this legislation passes, how many books will simply refuse to accept US customers. I know that without US customers most books will fail anyway but some may reduce overhead, costs, etc. and focus on non-US players.

Legislation like this is going to prove just how much more power the internet has given the little guy, and how much it's taken away from government.

A great thing, imo.

In response:

I get them regularly and besides, the US is CR number ONE commercial partner........we get most of our imports from there and that's where most of our exports go, if we couldnt receive wires from the US .........things here would be a LOT different


Accoring to National City Costa Rica is on the list - maybe it is just an advice list and not the banned list. I do not know as I do not work at the bank.

I do know that every book I've ever wired too in CR has made me go through an intermediate in Canada or England. Books in Canada, Australia, England, and Antigue do not use an intermediate.

Do your wires go through an intermediate bank???

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


One thing that occurs to me is if this legislation passes, how many books will simply refuse to accept US customers. I know that without US customers most books will fail anyway but some may reduce overhead, costs, etc. and focus on non-US players.

None or very close to none. Books set up offshore because they knew they were illegal. You can not make them more illegal. Books set up offshore in the Caribbean to target Americans and will continue. As long as 110 is bigger than 100, they will be continuing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

One thing I have not heard anybody in this thread mention however is that the first thing banks will do (it seems to me) is cease doing business with Neteller, Firpay, etc. That move, in and of itself, will cause a real inconvenience to gamblers. Of course, I agree there a ways around it but we should expect this action to occur quickly if legislation passes.

First of all this would require another law as these services/banks do not offer gambling. The government would have to pass another law stating you can not send money to a processor who might send money to a sportsbook. These services are used for other purposes as well.

Without an additional law, banks are not gonna add to the list they are supposed to block.

Additionally, Neteller set up in 4 countries for a reason. If the US tries to block them, Neteller will likely open and close new bank accounts making it impossible.

If Neteller decides not to do this, there will be 10 new companies to replace neteller. When paypal stopped taking bettors, we got neteller, swiftpay, firepay, 900 whatever, moneybookers, egold, and prob 5 others.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also, I haven't figured out exactly what we will do if eventually ISP's are forced to block internet access to books. That will be a real problem for the average players. Just my two cents.

Good luck.

Books will move their IP every day if need be. They could even automate it to move their IP and send you an email every day with the new link.

If that somehow got blocked, books would offer 800 number ISPs offshore.

China has tried to block content for years and has failed at a lot of it and this content has not been actively trying to avoid them.

10 years ago, if I told you in 5 years you could not use a credit card to place a wager, you'd laugh at me and tell me the internet gambling community is doomed. It will never be doomed. As long as millions will travel to Vegas to gamble, people will figure out ways to do it from their living room.

The law we need to be concerned about is if they criminilize the act of placing a bet.

If the US government decided to spend $100 Billion dollars, they might be able to block 25% of online gambling.

-Sean