Let me tell you how ridiculous the notion is that the US can stop internet gambling

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

If you hosted a sportsbook from downtown Washington DC - 2 blocks from the capital, it would take the feds a year or two to investigate you, get a grand jury to indict you, and bring you to a trial.

And you are just a small ass sportsbook in Washington DC.

If you think they are gonna shut down 1000s of sportsbooks all over the world, you are crazy!

Sean

MrCleo · Oct 4, 2006

sean1 said:
If you think they are gonna shut down 1000s of sportsbooks all over the world, you are crazy!

that's what I've been thinking along and wondered, why is there widespread Panic?

SBBC · Oct 4, 2006

Sean - you do not know everything that will happen. You make it sound like you know everything etc.. however in fact no one knows what will happen yet.

I agree w/ you on a lot of points though - do not get me wrong. I enjoy your posts and they are great things to think about.

Lets just see what happens first and then we can react and see what we can do to continue forward.

ClipJoint · Oct 4, 2006

SBBC said:
Sean - you do not know everything that will happen. You make it sound like you know everything etc..

Exactly...one day he is claiming we are screwed...the next day he is saying he will not post again about the topic...50 posts later on the same topic he says there is nothing the feds can do...this guy is all over the place. He has to get one right. :missingte

dougstewart · Oct 4, 2006

Sean,
That's what I initially thought also, but since this legislation has passed, it seems the feds may be effective afterall because all the sportsbooks/poker rooms are going to voluntarily comply with the US legislation even though they are not based in the USA. Who woulda thunk it?

SBBC · Oct 4, 2006

Clip -

Yeah I see your point. Sean is acting like he knows it all and we should just follow him and everything will be ok, when in fact we do not know yet.

I think in a way he is trying to tell himself everything will be OK when in fact we are not sure yet...

Time will tell guys.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

Fine, you keep worrying. I will keep gambling.

I certainly do not know it all, but I do know 100% that banks can not block uncoded transactions. I also know I can set up a neteller account in Canada with little effort because I did the research.

The rest really does not matter.

And yes, the European books that have brick and mortar shops in Europe are likely gonna leave the US (I said that previously). The Carribean shops that have only targetted the US - well I don't know of one that has closed.

Good luck.

Sean

Dante · Oct 4, 2006

doug stewart said:
Sean,
That's what I initially thought also, but since this legislation has passed, it seems the feds may be effective afterall because all the sportsbooks/poker rooms are going to voluntarily comply with the US legislation even though they are not based in the USA. Who woulda thunk it?

not true doug....there are many that are not even batting an eyelash...

there is a thread here with industry responses http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=410597 and many poker sites are saying that they are not going to do anything about this

Mr.Smith · Oct 4, 2006

sean1, I might be naive, but what are you gonna do when your address is a fake dummy canadian mailbox and some book refuses to send you a payout until you fax them a copy of canadian drivers license and a utilility bill?

how are you goingh to be able to get an ID with your mailbox address and a utility bill with same? I may be naive, but good luck

ClipJoint · Oct 4, 2006

Mr. Smith said:
sean1, I might be naive, but what are you gonna do when your address is a fake dummy canadian mailbox and some book refuses to send you a payout until you fax them a copy of canadian drivers license and a utilility bill?

how are you goingh to be able to get an ID with your mailbox address and a utility bill with same? I may be naive, but good luck

Not only that, but you will need to pay taxes coming and going.

billhill999 · Oct 4, 2006

MrCleo said:
that's what I've been thinking along and wondered, why is there widespread Panic?

Because it's the nature of the beast.
By that I mean, your average bettor can't help but worry (panic)
"Oh my God, Tiki just fumbled the ball, there goes by 3 team parlay......"
They can't help themselves not to panic.

I'll say it again, internet poker and gaming is not going anywhere, anytime soon, instead of wasting energy worrying over this issue, they should use that energy 'capping tonights Marshall/CFU game.

Quite frankly, I don't see how Marshall loses this game tonight.

WVU · Oct 4, 2006

as well as a canadian address, you will need utility bills and a photo identification, even for neteller.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

WVU, that is not true. Three months ago, it was true. As of yesterday, I specifically asked about this and three different reps told me that I do not need utility or Canadian identification.

All you need now is a Canadian bank account and address.

Neteller is not stupid.

Sean

dougstewart · Oct 4, 2006

Dante said:
not true doug....there are many that are not even batting an eyelash...

there is a thread here with industry responses http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=410597 and many poker sites are saying that they are not going to do anything about this

OK, Dante, I admit saying "ALL" sportsbooks and poker rooms are closing is an exaggeration. But since the bill has passed, we have heard of MANY sportsbooks and poker rooms closing their doors to US customers. You do agree with that, Dante? Now my point is this....of those MANY sportsbooks and poker rooms that have stopped taking US customers, ALL of them have voluntarily complied with the US legislation! NONE of them have been forced to close by this US legislation because NONE of them are located in the US.

Sean's initial point was that this legislation was not going to be effective; I agreed with that point initially; but the fact that all these sportsbooks and poker rooms are voluntarily complying with the US legislation makes me change my mind about the effect of this legislation. Before the legislation passed, I would never have guessed that these companies would voluntarily and needlessly capitulate to the US govt. Someone made the point, I think it was Nolan Dalla, that these companies by voluntarily complying with the US govt now, put themselves in a better position to re-enter the US market once internet gambling becomes legal. I would like to make the counter-point that all US players should remember these companies and boycott them like the plague should they ever come back to a legal US market!

WVU · Oct 4, 2006

I thought I saw that identification may be required in neteller's new terms, but I can't find it now. Either way, you will still need ID for most of the merchants so just having a Canadian neteller account will not help much.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

Yes, neteller says they can ask for ID. The ID can be a US passport even if you live in Canada. I've used my Ohio drivers license in the past and I live in FL.

The merchants aren't gonna care. Your sportsbook address does not have to match your neteller address. All they match up is number and email.

Every last one of them that wants ID already has seen it and if it comes to it I will simply tell them - hey guys, my new neteller account is Canada based so that I can keep doing business with you.

Sean

Concorde · Oct 4, 2006

Mr. Smith said:
sean1, I might be naive, but what are you gonna do when your address is a fake dummy canadian mailbox and some book refuses to send you a payout until you fax them a copy of canadian drivers license and a utilility bill?

how are you goingh to be able to get an ID with your mailbox address and a utility bill with same? I may be naive, but good luck

He don't need a fake Canadian adress, he don't need to move to Canada and he don't need to travel ... again http://swiss-bank-accounts.com/e/index.html

WVU · Oct 4, 2006

Some merchants do care. I have been denied cashouts to Neteller because the information in my account didn't match that of Neteller. These were casino joints though.

Neteller is not going to work with you as smoothly as you think Sean. They clearly state that you cannot have more than one account (regardless that the csr told you to open another and transfer your US funds into it).

You may not open more than one Account and we may terminate any or all of the Accounts of a Member who has, or whom we reasonably suspect has, multiple Accounts.

If you put compete trust in neteller you will get burned. They will fold to the US Gov't if they get pressured. This law was passed partly because of terrorism.

15.3 We assume that prior to opening your Account, you have determined that opening and maintaining your Account does not violate any law or regulations in your country of residence and jurisdiction. You warrant that you are not violating any laws or regulations by your use of the NETELLER Service and you agree to indemnify NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors, from and against any and all liability that might arise from your use of the NETELLER Service in violation of any law or regulation.

14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10><TBODY><TR><TD class=DOC_CONTENT vAlign=top> (g) </TD><TD class=DOC_CONTENT>we believe your Account has been used or allegedly used in or to facilitate fraudulent or illegal activity;
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10><TBODY><TR><TD class=DOC_CONTENT vAlign=top>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10><TBODY><TR><TD class=DOC_CONTENT vAlign=top>(j) </TD><TD class=DOC_CONTENT>to comply with money laundering or terrorist financing investigations conducted by government authorities, agencies or commissions</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD><TD class=DOC_CONTENT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

I'll take my chances that if I get a new address and bank account and I ask neteller how to update my old account, and I follow what they tell me, they will then close my old account and not both accounts.

I do not put all my eggs into neteller.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will legitimately move to Canada, Europe, or Australia before I will stop wagering.

Sean

wolfie_cr · Oct 4, 2006

Sean

Normally I would say they would not be so helpful in closing one account opening a new one without some sort of paperwork nightmare

BUT

given the situation where their bottom line is at risk of being affected in a very measurable way......I suspect they will be more than happy to accomodate to customers that want to keep their business and simply change 'a few details'

its amazing how attitudes/policies change when the situation gets serious