Theory on how the Treasury Dept is gonna do this

buddyboy · Oct 4, 2006

If you are not familiar with the Specially Designated Nationals List (SDN) then go here and check it out:

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sdn/

basically it's the list of people/companies banks can't send money to.

So on day one, I think the treasury will put Neteller on the list.

Basically the books will keep changing the account names they use at the banks as the treasury dept adds names to the list.

The Feds (fbi) will set up accounts with Books to get the bank names, turn that info over to the treasury dept and then file charges against the books. and then have the ip addresses blocked.

meanwhile bin laudin is still free

So let's say for awhile you get some checks and or wires from a book that is not on the list... you get paid and think everything is hunky dory, then one day the account name you've been getting your money from makes the list.

Step one: the feds will need to identify every penny that was sent into the US from that account.

Step two: because that money was sent illegally to the US it must be siezed

Step three: You are notified to surrender any and all money you received from the person/company on the list.

Step four: well that is up to you, you can either comply or not.

now don't forget, that the US has access to international swift records (all in the name of fighting terror) so let's say the feds get ahold of an books account number and then justify that they need to see those swift records in order to investigate that none of the money is being laundered to terror org's. hmmmm....

Santo · Oct 4, 2006

Your last sentance won't be the case for much longer, the EU have ruled it illegal for European institutions to give the US that info.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

Step three: You are notified to surrender any and all money you received from the person/company on the list.

You are acting crazy!!

1. The Feds are not interested in taking your and my money. If they were they would just raise taxes.

2. In order for money to be seized you have to gain it by committing a crime. Placing a bet is not illegal. The only thing breaking the law is the bank. If the feds wanted,I suppose they could try to seize the money from the bank.

My first $1 that is seized and I will never return to this country.

-Sean

Sugarbear · Oct 4, 2006

Your reaching. One, not the first person is hired anywhere and there are no rules of compliance, identification and the like. Plus, they are clueless. The treasuary department will be years trying to roll out anything.

Without rules of audit or compliance, no one will ever know. Without a paper trail, you are depending on someone to intercept it all.

In any event all will either of offshore banking accounts or the new methods will be up and runnning, most are not US bank dependent at all. You will like what you see.

Per Sean 1, if push comes to shove, the banks will drop there FDIC insurance and go private first. A great idea in any event.

Also, you have turned it around and made it look they will go after the player.
Wrong, they will go after the banker for not stopping the player, as well as tag for money laundering etc. They go after the few, not the many. Swift is no longer going to comply with the US, by the way.

In your model, the banks would have to tell someone, that because a buisness in the world MAY be a gambling operation, or MAY send this money to a gambling facility, we can not let you have this cashiers check, check, as well as you are restricted to how much money you can withdraw at one time because you have been identified as a person whom MAY, send money offshore. You are also limited to to 3 ach tranfers a week and must get approval for anymore after that.

Your write up amounts to them hunting down the gamblers instead of the banks. They will inform the banks and if they slip up, they will go after the head of it.

Wont happen.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

Remember drug dealers move millions and millions of dollars.

What percent of drug money would you say is seized?

I would guess less than 1%.

Sean

wolfie_cr · Oct 4, 2006

firepay/fireone/surefire/terra payments/optimal payments

those are the names of fireone (is that the current name?) that I can remember of the top of my head in the last 7 years

they put neteller in the list

lets rename the company.....................or split operations in several smaller groups or.............

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

i think if gambling is your business you probably should move to vegas

dealing with offshore books now sending new money is only asking for trouble.

the public company books will all clear themselves of us clients so what are you left with. relying on private companies/individuals to regulate and compete amongst themselves -- and then pay you.

the moment the heat comes to bear on them (if it does) you the player will have little chance to get your money back - and if you do the govt will if they choose be able to audit you in a way they may not have done otherwise

some serious choices to face up too in the future.

you ask what will happen to neteller - they wont go anywhere for a while as the feds know exactly where to look - once ready they will be unable to service us clients as well.

just my opinion goodluck

Sugarbear · Oct 4, 2006

Wolfie, putting out the hints left and right. I follow what you say. Your subtle, but very valuable with your insights.

buddyboy · Oct 4, 2006

just being the devils advocate here...

right. the gambler commits no crime, but when u send the $ to the book the book commits a crime, any money you get back from that book (in excess of $10k) can be considered money laundering.

and being so can be taken:

The following property is subject to forfeiture to the United States:
(A) Any property, real or personal, involved in a transaction or attempted transaction in violation of section 1956, 1957 or 1960 of this title, or any property traceable to such property.

So what does the bank have to do? Well nothing, they just treat the bookie list like they treat the terrorist list. If they get a hit they tell the feds.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

"the public company books will all clear themselves of us clients so what are you left with. relying on private companies/individuals to regulate and compete amongst themselves -- and then pay you."

I'll give you two lists - you tell me where you'd rather keep large amounts of money.

Public:

Sportingbet, sportsbetting, sportsbook, ladbrokes, 888, casinoonline, party, Hollywood, Nine, VIP

Private:

Pinnacle, WSEX, Jamaica, Cris, Bodog, 5dimes, Diamond, Cascade, Trojan, Olympic, skybook, heritage, SEXYWAGERS

Sean

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

sean

i would not send a cent to any of them right now to be honest

and the stock mkt listed ones wudnt accept new clients or more bets from us citizens fairly soon if they havent already excluded you already

id go use a local or move to vegas if all i did was sportsbetting.

I want to sit back and wait and see what/how and on whom the laws are applied. also i dont want my bank flagging my accounts due to these type of transactions - i think thats bad in the long run

thats just me and my opinion

local all the way until proven or figured out a better way.

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that.

Personally I am not changing a thing I do until a transaction is blocked.

Sean

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

thats the thing

i have a company - i dont need my bank flagging my accounts and causing me grief over smaller amounts of personal money

its just not worth it to me.

im acting more cautious than most here on this forum but as i said i feel i have a good reason.

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

and what i mean by that is

my personal account

5k out 7 k in 2 k out 5 k in

they flag me to the feds not block a transaction next thing you know im having alot more trouble than just betting a few games

sean1 · Oct 4, 2006

Just an aside - if you are concerned about your business and not about having sportsbook money lost, wouldn't it be prudent to separate your banking?

I have run several businesses and would not dream of having my business accounts at the same bank as where I have accounts from which I gamble or send funds offshore.

Sean

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

no they arent at same bank

but whats the common denominator in banking ?

ssn or identification number

thats all they need to flag for an individual and it will catch all

not sure if you are the principal of your co. but you have to provide enough id to open the account. even for my business account they searched my name by SSN before the account was opened - to check what records came back through the various systems they use.

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

the company is registered with the cftc and holds financial licences

so its not an insignificant thing to me.

gbogo · Oct 4, 2006

or if you want to be more precise

the industry has a body that runs it (NFA) and the cftc is the govt enforcement that oversees the industry

so you are in effect making all details freely available

summary : for me right now just not worth it