Curious Question about the New Bill and Taxes

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Ok, here's something I've been wondering about the newly signed bill that I haven't seen discussed. Every smart, long time gambler has stated that you should always report your wins/losses to the IRS come tax time.

My question is, does the IRS have the ability (or would they) report "suspicious" gambling claims to authorities? They say that if you claim huge wins/losses it raises a red flag to the IRS, which could eventually lead to an audit. If you need proof of your gambling claims and you don't live in Vegas, you'd pretty much have no excuse for your winnings other than illegally gambling online. Any documentation you save to support your claims would just prove your guilt.

Opinions appreciated.
 

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Good question and one that will bring on an array of different answers and opinions.
 

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FairlySquarely said:
Ok, here's something I've been wondering about the newly signed bill that I haven't seen discussed. Every smart, long time gambler has stated that you should always report your wins/losses to the IRS come tax time.

My question is, does the IRS have the ability (or would they) report "suspicious" gambling claims to authorities? They say that if you claim huge wins/losses it raises a red flag to the IRS, which could eventually lead to an audit. If you need proof of your gambling claims and you don't live in Vegas, you'd pretty much have no excuse for your winnings other than illegally gambling online. Any documentation you save to support your claims would just prove your guilt.

Opinions appreciated.

I wouldn't put anything past the IRS.....my brother is a CPA specializing in taxes. I'll get his two cents on the topic and how he would suggest you deal with that situation.
 

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da1prophet said:
I wouldn't put anything past the IRS.....my brother is a CPA specializing in taxes. I'll get his two cents on the topic and how he would suggest you deal with that situation.

I have found over the past 2-25 years that the vast majority of CPA's no very, very little when it comes to gambling and how to report it accurately..............especially of the offshore variety.
 

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This issue becomes a problem with huge online winnings. Should you report your winnings and possibly incriminate yourself? Or should you not claim and face the possibility of being convicted for money laundering?
 

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Fishhead said:
I have found over the past 2-25 years that the vast majority of CPA's no very, very little when it comes to gambling and how to report it accurately..............especially of the offshore variety.

Maybe I should rephrase that...my brother is a CPA specializing in taxes and is very knowledgable on the subject of gambling and how to report it accurately. Including the offshore variety ; )

Seriously, his plan within the next few years is to open a firm specializing in tax advice for people in the gambling business, professional gamblers and others with offshore exposure. He really knows his sh*t in this area...
 

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da1prophet said:
Maybe I should rephrase that...my brother is a CPA specializing in taxes and is very knowledgable on the subject of gambling and how to report it accurately. Including the offshore variety ; )

Seriously, his plan within the next few years is to open a firm specializing in tax advice for people in the gambling business, professional gamblers and others with offshore exposure. He really knows his sh*t in this area...

Looking forward to his opinion on this, da1prophet. Would be valuable info.
 

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FairlySquarely said:
Looking forward to his opinion on this, da1prophet. Would be valuable info.

Just talked to him on the phone--he said he would give it some in depth thought. His short answer: unless the IRS was suspicious about you anyway, they probably wouldn't scrutinize it closely enough to matter and would be very unlikely to report it to the DoJ or other authorities. The have the *ability* to do so at a higher level, but most of the people who would be looking at your return (unless you were already under suspicion for something else) are of the "don't know, don't care" variety of low level bureaucrat. Unless they're already keeping tabs on you for some other reason, or you're engaged in some obvious law enforcement transgretion, the "higher level" parties won't even know you exist.

He also said that his understanding of the new legislation was that it didn't criminalize the act of online wagering on the players' end, so the DoJ and other relevent law enforcement groups wouldn't have any compelling desire to hear about it. He said the way things work is that the various law enforcement agencies have to tell the IRS what to look for--the IRS doesn't really have the ability to arbitrarily decide something is "suspicious" and forward it to someone to check out. The *can* flag things that they've been told to watch out for--like if you claimed most of your income from "drug sales", "weapons sales in the mideast" or the like. He said that the IRS is actually surprisingly good about financial privacy--unless there's a really compelling law enforcement reason to share information (like if you're a drug dealer or terrorist sympathizer) or another agency has a lien on your taxes (like the Department of Education grabbing your tax return if you default on your student loans) there is almost no sharing of tax information with departments outside of the IRS.

Bottom line--unless you're selling weapons to Hamas for your day job, or a law enforcement agency is keeping tabs on you already for whatever reason he's of the opinion that there is little to worry about. He was on his way out the door and said that he'd think about it some more, and try to come up with potential workarounds to minimize your exposure even more.

He did add the caveat that by reporting gambling winnings and losses (which he agrees is the best thing to do on balance) that you're at higher risk for an audit. Not so much because you're a gambler per se, but because they target people in industries with a lot of cash transactions--it doesn't matter to them whether you're a stripper, a bartender, a blackjack dealer, a construction worker, or a gambler.

Anyway, he loves thinking about stuff like this so I'll send along anything else he comes up with and particularly his "workarounds to minimize your exposure"
 

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I know of many pro's that live in other states other than Vegas. There are casinos everywhere, most within a 3 hour drive of most individuals.

I also know some that travel the state/world playing games of advantage.

BB
 

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Just to clarify one more thing he said--the IRS also has a very high threshold for sharing info with law enforcement, so the DoJ and other various agencies limit their request to fairly significant crimes (eg: terrorism). He gave the example of someone who stole TV sets and resold them--you could claim the profits from the sale of TV sets on your tax return and no one (again with the proviso that they're keeping tabs on you for some other reason) would "investigate" the source of the TV sets. He said its not only a desire for the IRS to maintain to the greatest degree they can the financial privacy of citizens, but its an issue of manpower and resources--they just don't have enough to sniff around on every suspicious tax return, nor does the IRS have the authority on its on to determine what is and isn't "suspicious" relative to law enforcement not related to the payment or non-payment of taxes.

Anyway, I'll update when I talk to him again. Also, I want to nominate Fairly Squarely for posing the BEST question related to the anti-gambling legislation and its ramifications I've heard. Well done..
 

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Thanks for everyone's input. I think the misconception that the bill affects individual gamblers is still around and will be around until more people are educated by reading threads like these. I know I was still confused of the specific ramifications of the bill until Amsterdam cleared it up.

Another quick question... Is the bill of the same variety as the laws made by individual states prohibiting online gambling? Do these state laws affect only internet gambling establishments as well, or do they actually target individuals? Thanks in advance.
 

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The IRS is prevented by law from turning you in even if you declare illegal income. In fact you must report all income, illegal or otherwise, or you are in violation. They can't have it both ways, so since you are required to report illegal income, the IRS is required to maintain your privacy.

Placing a bet is only illegal in certain states, even then generally as a misdemeanor. Tax evasion, on the other hand is a big deal. So it would be better to declare all your income.
 

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da1prophet said:
Just to clarify one more thing he said--the IRS also has a very high threshold for sharing info with law enforcement, so the DoJ and other various agencies limit their request to fairly significant crimes (eg: terrorism). He gave the example of someone who stole TV sets and resold them--you could claim the profits from the sale of TV sets on your tax return and no one (again with the proviso that they're keeping tabs on you for some other reason) would "investigate" the source of the TV sets. He said its not only a desire for the IRS to maintain to the greatest degree they can the financial privacy of citizens, but its an issue of manpower and resources--they just don't have enough to sniff around on every suspicious tax return, nor does the IRS have the authority on its on to determine what is and isn't "suspicious" relative to law enforcement not related to the payment or non-payment of taxes.

Anyway, I'll update when I talk to him again. Also, I want to nominate Fairly Squarely for posing the BEST question related to the anti-gambling legislation and its ramifications I've heard. Well done..

Better get yourslef a new CPA. As fathead posted, not only do they not have authority to turn you over to law enforcement, it is against the Law for them to do so.
 

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jwunderdog said:
Better get yourslef a new CPA. As fathead posted, not only do they not have authority to turn you over to law enforcement, it is against the Law for them to do so.

That doesn't mean they can't or wouldn't do it. If they really wanted to to they could turn over the info totally informally and no one would likely ever know. I think that is the CPA's point. Like if you declared income from "arms and nuclear weapons information to Iran and North Korea for the purpose of aiding anti-US terrorism"....I think the IRS might just share that. I dunno. Just a hunch.
 

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D2bets said:
That doesn't mean they can't or wouldn't do it. If they really wanted to to they could turn over the info totally informally and no one would likely ever know. I think that is the CPA's point. Like if you declared income from "arms and nuclear weapons information to Iran and North Korea for the purpose of aiding anti-US terrorism"....I think the IRS might just share that. I dunno. Just a hunch.

Just called my brother back for further clarification--he said that while Fathead is technically correct, there are ways for the FBI and law enforcment agencies to get tax information but he conceeded that "it ain't easy". When it does occur, however, its for fairly "high stakes" type crimes.

One reason it doesn't occur more often is that a lot of the Patriot Act era reforms make it unnecessary for law enforcement to go through the IRS--they can just go to other sources (like banks) and get the information they need much more easily.

Basically, the answer to the original question is still the same: if you aren't under investigation by the Feds for running arms to to terrorists or being part of an international drug cartel, the IRS could care less where your gambling winnings are coming from. As the recently signed legislation is worded there's no prohibition on online wagering for players, so there's really no trouble you could get in to. Assuming the Feds are after you for something else, your online gambling activities is the least of your concern. Your biggest risk of declaring your gambling winnings from whereever is that it might increase the liklihood you'll be audited...
 

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