Great NY Times article on the effects of the gambling law....

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From the NY Times

October 19, 2006
<NYT_KICKER>Op-Ed Contributor</NYT_KICKER>
<NYT_HEADLINE type=" " version="1.0">The G.O.P.’s Bad Bet </NYT_HEADLINE>

<NYT_BYLINE type=" " version="1.0">By CHARLES MURRAY
</NYT_BYLINE><NYT_TEXT>Las Vegas
LAST week President Bush signed a law that will try to impede online gambling by prohibiting American banks from transferring money to gambling sites. Most Americans probably didn’t notice or care, but it may do significant political damage to the Republicans this fall and long-term damage to Americans’ respect for the law.

So, a month before a major election, the Republicans have allied themselves with a scattering of voters who are upset by online gambling and have outraged the millions who love it. Furthermore, judging from many hours of online chat with Internet poker players, I am willing to bet (if you’ll pardon the expression) that the outraged millions are disproportionately electricians, insurance agents, police officers, mid-level managers, truck drivers, small-business owners — that is, disproportionately Republicans and Reagan Democrats.
In the short term, this law all by itself could add a few more Democratic Congressional seats in the fall elections. We are talking about a lot of people (an estimated 23 million Americans gamble online) who are angry enough to vote on the basis of this one issue, and they blame Republicans.

In the long term, something more ominous is at work.

If a free society is to work, the vast majority of citizens must reflexively obey the law not because they fear punishment, but because they accept that the rule of law makes society possible. That reflexive law-abidingness is reinforced when the laws are limited to core objectives that enjoy consensus support, even though people may disagree on means.
Thus society is weakened every time a law is passed that large numbers of reasonable, responsible citizens think is stupid. Such laws invite good citizens to choose knowingly to break the law, confident that they are doing nothing morally wrong.

The reaction to Prohibition, the 20th century’s stupidest law, is the archetypal case. But the radical expansion of government throughout the last century has created many more.

For example, all employers are confronted with rules and regulations from Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that they regard with contempt — not because they cut into profits, but because they are, simply, stupid. They impede employers yet provide no collateral social benefit. And so employers treat the stupid regulations as obstructions to be fudged or ignored. When they have to comply, they do not see compliance as the right thing to do, but as placating an agency that will hurt them otherwise.

The same thing applies to lesser degrees to all of us who find ourselves doing things that we know are pointless (think of various aspects of tax law) only because we fear attracting a bureaucracy’s attention. For millions of Americans, our day-to-day relationship with government is increasingly like paying protection to the Mafia — keeping it off our backs while we get on with our lives.

The temptation for good citizens to ignore a stupid law is encouraged when it is unenforceable. In this, the attempt to ban Internet gambling is exemplary. One of the four sites where I play poker has blocked United States customers because of the law, but the other three are functioning as usual and are confident that they can continue to do so. They are not in America, and it is absurdly easy to devise ways of transferring money from American bank accounts to institutions abroad and thence to gambling sites.

And so the federal government once again has acted in a way that will fail to achieve its objective while alienating large numbers of citizens who see themselves as having done nothing wrong. The libertarian part of me is heartened by this, hoping that a new political coalition will start to return government to its proper functions. But the civic-minded part of me is apprehensive. Reflexive loyalty to the rule of law is an indispensable cultural asset. The more honest citizens who take for granted that they are breaking the law, the more their loyalty to the law, and to the government that creates it, is eroded.

<NYT_AUTHOR_ID>Charles Murray is a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
</NYT_AUTHOR_ID>
</NYT_TEXT>
 
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Is it any wonder why we are so cynical given the way the government operates? In this case it is not only the law itself, but the way in which it was passed.

Thanks for the good read.
 

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I used to think Libertarian just meant head-in-the-clouds Republican.

But it's a word I'd use to describe myself more and more each day.
 

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He is right. I have always voted Repub in the past. This fall, I will make it to the polls and it'll be straight democratic this year. Frist fucked his party. That ass.

It was cowardly thing to do, putting the gambling bill on the port security bill and getting the vote knowing that Congress didn't know it was in there.

Later,
Books Worst Enemy
 

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This is the single best written well thought out article I have read on the subject.
 

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Books Worst Enemy said:
He is right. I have always voted Repub in the past. This fall, I will make it to the polls and it'll be straight democratic this year.

Don't forget to tell all your buddies who like to have a bet now and again.
 

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Right. They think they're job is to help us when actually they should serve us. What a joke.
 

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Me too. Bush and his do gooders can get the F out.

I don't need your so called morality.
 

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In the short term, this law all by itself could add a few more Democratic Congressional seats in the fall elections. We are talking about a lot of people (an estimated 23 million Americans gamble online) who are angry enough to vote on the basis of this one issue, and they blame Republicans.


exactly :toast:

the fucken dumbasses might have tipped there control of congress to the dems when Frist cowardly snuck this bill in


wackjobs:grandmais I am very mad at myself for voting REPUG for the last 8 years ..NO more
 

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That's great but the Dems are so weak on defense that I think it will have extremely negative consequences if they get in control. The defense of the U.S. should never be in the hands of Harry Reid's and Nancy Peolosi's and John Murtha's. There are things more important than offshore gambling on our plate at the moment. But...it's a democracy, so we'll see where the chips fall.
 

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Anti-liberal said:
That's great but the Dems are so weak on defense that I think it will have extremely negative consequences if they get in control. The defense of the U.S. should never be in the hands of Harry Reid's and Nancy Peolosi's and John Murtha's. There are things more important than offshore gambling on our plate at the moment. But...it's a democracy, so we'll see where the chips fall.
The dems are not weak on defense.....they are just weak on offense. They feel it is not in the best interests of the United States to stay in countries and get good Marines, Airmen and Soldiers killed for nothing.....after the war is over....unlike you guys.
 

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The G.O.P.’s Bad Bet

Personally, I find the New York times far too biased toward the left for my taste. But this Op-Ed article by Charles Murray is right on the money and should be sent to every Republican congressperson and Senator:



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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/opinion/19murray.html?ex=1161921600&en=efff5f33d874f7f1&ei=5070&emc=eta1

<HR align=left SIZE=1>October 19, 2006
<NYT_KICKER>Op-Ed Contributor</NYT_KICKER>
<NYT_HEADLINE type=" " version="1.0">The G.O.P.’s Bad Bet </NYT_HEADLINE>

<NYT_BYLINE type=" " version="1.0">By CHARLES MURRAY
</NYT_BYLINE><NYT_TEXT>Las Vegas
LAST week President Bush signed a law that will try to impede online gambling by prohibiting American banks from transferring money to gambling sites. Most Americans probably didn’t notice or care, but it may do significant political damage to the Republicans this fall and long-term damage to Americans’ respect for the law.

So, a month before a major election, the Republicans have allied themselves with a scattering of voters who are upset by online gambling and have outraged the millions who love it. Furthermore, judging from many hours of online chat with Internet poker players, I am willing to bet (if you’ll pardon the expression) that the outraged millions are disproportionately electricians, insurance agents, police officers, mid-level managers, truck drivers, small-business owners — that is, disproportionately Republicans and Reagan Democrats.

In the short term, this law all by itself could add a few more Democratic Congressional seats in the fall elections. We are talking about a lot of people (an estimated 23 million Americans gamble online) who are angry enough to vote on the basis of this one issue, and they blame Republicans.

In the long term, something more ominous is at work. If a free society is to work, the vast majority of citizens must reflexively obey the law not because they fear punishment, but because they accept that the rule of law makes society possible. That reflexive law-abidingness is reinforced when the laws are limited to core objectives that enjoy consensus support, even though people may disagree on means.

Thus society is weakened every time a law is passed that large numbers of reasonable, responsible citizens think is stupid. Such laws invite good citizens to choose knowingly to break the law, confident that they are doing nothing morally wrong.

The reaction to Prohibition, the 20th century’s stupidest law, is the archetypal case. But the radical expansion of government throughout the last century has created many more.

For example, all employers are confronted with rules and regulations from Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that they regard with contempt — not because they cut into profits, but because they are, simply, stupid. They impede employers yet provide no collateral social benefit. And so employers treat the stupid regulations as obstructions to be fudged or ignored. When they have to comply, they do not see compliance as the right thing to do, but as placating an agency that will hurt them otherwise.

The same thing applies to lesser degrees to all of us who find ourselves doing things that we know are pointless (think of various aspects of tax law) only because we fear attracting a bureaucracy’s attention. For millions of Americans, our day-to-day relationship with government is increasingly like paying protection to the Mafia — keeping it off our backs while we get on with our lives.

The temptation for good citizens to ignore a stupid law is encouraged when it is unenforceable. In this, the attempt to ban Internet gambling is exemplary. One of the four sites where I play poker has blocked United States customers because of the law, but the other three are functioning as usual and are confident that they can continue to do so. They are not in America, and it is absurdly easy to devise ways of transferring money from American bank accounts to institutions abroad and thence to gambling sites.

And so the federal government once again has acted in a way that will fail to achieve its objective while alienating large numbers of citizens who see themselves as having done nothing wrong. The libertarian part of me is heartened by this, hoping that a new political coalition will start to return government to its proper functions. But the civic-minded part of me is apprehensive. Reflexive loyalty to the rule of law is an indispensable cultural asset. The more honest citizens who take for granted that they are breaking the law, the more their loyalty to the law, and to the government that creates it, is eroded.


<NYT_AUTHOR_ID>Charles Murray is a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
</NYT_AUTHOR_ID>
</NYT_TEXT>

<CENTER><NYT_COPYRIGHT>
</CENTER>
 

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ALREADY A THREAD ill merge Kwalder
 
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Books Worst Enemy said:
He is right. I have always voted Repub in the past. This fall, I will make it to the polls and it'll be straight democratic this year. Frist fucked his party. That ass.

It was cowardly thing to do, putting the gambling bill on the port security bill and getting the vote knowing that Congress didn't know it was in there.

Later,
Books Worst Enemy
That's ok for now, but if the democrats get control of congress or the whitehouse then you have to vote repubs again. We need a constant stalemate.
 

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time to throw some tea in the harbor.

These clowns are not fit to Rule the World.

The only hope we have is, the U.S. Government is the worst government in the world (except for all the rest!), AND they will back down or be destroyed by the People. We never gave up our guns you know.
 

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CAPN CRUNCH said:
The dems are not weak on defense.....they are just weak on offense. They feel it is not in the best interests of the United States to stay in countries and get good Marines, Airmen and Soldiers killed for nothing.....after the war is over....unlike you guys.

Ok...I guess we'll just wait until we're attacked again and then react to it somehow, and then repeat these two steps over and over again. Nice plan.
 

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Anti-liberal said:
Ok...I guess we'll just wait until we're attacked again and then react to it somehow, and then repeat these two steps over and over again. Nice plan.
Yes. Now you're getting it. You cannot invade a country because they might do something...if that premise is correct.....then so is North korea.
 

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Anti-liberal said:
Ok...I guess we'll just wait until we're attacked again and then react to it somehow, and then repeat these two steps over and over again. Nice plan.

I think that's the way most civilized governments have done it since the beginning of time. Running your Foreign policy like Atilla the Hun does not enhance the security of our country. And this is coming from someone who's never voted for a Democratic candidate in my life--I voted straight Republican until I realized that Bush and the religious right was selling out Reagan era concepts of small government, personal liberty and fiscal responsibility. Then I started to vote libertarian. I'm in no way under the illusion that the Democrats are *better* for the country, on the online gambling issue or any other. But at some point the GOP needs to get a wake up call that they're not only harming the country, but are pissing all over the concepts that led to the rise of conservativism and their party in the first place.
 

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