After listening to Dan Patrick on ESPN radio, Rogers should be suspended,used benzoin

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Went out to grab some lunch and was listening to Dan Patrick show. Patrick interviewed Keith Olbermann who claims Rogers was using a substance called benzoin. Benzoin is used by musicians. It is a substance that when it dries looks like iodine. The substance even when dry and washed off the hand, still stays sticky up to 24 hours after being washed off. The affects on the ball makes it drop which if you watched game last night, Rogers probably threw less than a handful of ball that were above the thighs. Olbermann claims some musician friends recognized the substance from Fox photos. Also, evidence after he washed off his hand, showed still a shadow of where it was which is exactly what benzoin does to your hand after being washed off. Rogers should be suspended.

The only question I have is why Larussa did not ask for him to be checked. Steve Palermo who was representing MLB when Selig isn't present claimed in post game interview it was dirt. Dirt is not an illegal substance and does not have to be washed off as it is not illegal. So why did Kenny wash his hand off Steve? In regards to Larussa, there is a gentlemen's agreement between all managers about pitchers and substances. They don't make a big deal out of it because likely over 50% of all pitchers doctoring the ball in some way. It is also the umpires responsibility to check him and they did not. It is not the managers job to request it.

There is also a precedence of this. In 1988 NL playoffs, Jay Howell was suspended for using pinetar and getting caught. Why are we giving Rogers a pass? Here is a guy who was 0 for everything in the post season with around a 10 era in past playoffs. He has been caught a couple times this post season on camera with same spot on pitching hand. The substance can be used when on or off hand for 24 hours to doctor a baseball. If this is a Cardinal pitcher who did this I would feel same way as baseball is our National pastime and feel anyone who cheats should be exposed and punished. Selig it is time to step up and do the right thing. If you say it is too late you are wrong Bud. This substance will still be on the balls after the game and being washed off the hand. I would love to hear thoughts from others on this topic.
 

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Umpires goofed on this one. Can't suspend the guy now. Photos are convincing but it isn't enough to suspend. As you mentioned above, he clearly isn't the only pitcher doing this. Is used by many pitchers.
 

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Very interesting info about benzoin, Kojak.

I watched some of the comments made on SportsCenter last night including Steve Palmero's comments. I agree that this issue is unfortunately a non-issue since neither the manager or the home plate ump (or crew chief) bothered to do a formal check, if only for procedure's sake.

Now, regarding some people commenting in other threads that Rogers out flatly cheated, I don't know how to respond to that. They have already "concluded as if they were a judge, jury, executioneer that Rogers DID HAVE pine tar". To me, that's going too far.

Then, I saw many pictures on SI.com regarding same spot during ALDS and ALCS, even one game last July with this same spot on Rogers' hand. This would defeat the "oh-this-guy-sucked-but-now-all-of-a-sudden-very-hot" theory out there. However, I agree that this BEGS some kind of investigation on just what the heck is Rogers having on his hand that he does not feel while pitching??

Until we know for a fact it *is* a foreign substance on his hand, Rogers is innocent and shouldn't be suspended immediately until otherwise proven. This is not what some would want to say, but it's the right thing.

* CalvinTy
 

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Interesting subject to hash around.

However, for CARDINAL fans and players, this problem should be way down the list of their concerns..........that is even if it is a problem.
 

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fishhead,
I am making no excuses for last night, Cards deserved to lose, they were outplayed. But funny thing is, Cards who could not hit a lick through 8 innings, start hitting when Rogers leaves game? Jones is no great shake but you don't see teams turn it on that much after getting 2 hits the entire game to that point!

Fans in STL are upset that Larussa did nothing. When I say upset, UPSET? They feel Larussa's loyalty should be to winning WS instead of protecting his friend Leyland from embarrassment. I actually feel for Larussa and actually differ from what most think. Tony is keeping it about the game and it is not his fault or responsibility. It is MLB's responsibility.
 

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LaRussa is the person who should be blamed for all of this.

He simply chose not to enforce the rules and have Rogers checked on the mound...guess his old buddy owes him one...but...

Now it is The Story...they are still going to play Game three right?
 

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Keith Olbermann who claims Rogers was using a substance called benzoin.

Radio Guys claim a lot of crap, especially ESPN guys.
 

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Wonder if Cardinal ownership is pissed at Larussa??

Guess they could be, if they lose this series with possibly two losses to Rogers.
 

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Kojak...

Todd Jones made me sweat all season. I think he only blew 6 saves...but he cost me alot of money on runline losses...

This is the key stat on Jones from 2006:

64 Innings 70 Hits

IMO...that is not closer material...and I am not surprised the Cardinals started hitting when he came in...

Izzy is a better closer than Jones...and that ain't saying much.
 

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Kojak said:
fishhead,
I am making no excuses for last night, Cards deserved to lose, they were outplayed. But funny thing is, Cards who could not hit a lick through 8 innings, start hitting when Rogers leaves game? Jones is no great shake but you don't see teams turn it on that much after getting 2 hits the entire game to that point!
Be careful, there is quicksand beneath you, Kojak, as you may fall into the conspiracy trap. ;-)

Not to play devil's advocate, but I checked again and confirmed that it was already 2 outs in top of 9th inning (Spiezo & Pujols were retired) before Rolen hit a single then Jones mishandled that ball hit by Encarnacion, which could have been the 3rd out. That'd have been one harmless single given up by Jones if the game ended at that point, which doesn't support the "start hitting when Rogers leaves game", really.

But like TonyMar says, there will be a Game 3 and let us enjoy the rest of the series! Best of luck to your beloved Cards, Kojak! I'm on the other side but good luck to everyone.

* CalvinTy
 

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All parties involved say that umpires never told Rogers to wash hand. What a crock! There is photos of umpires talking to Rogers. Question I have is why did they not inspect him after having him wash his hand. In regards once again to Larussa, it is not his responsibility. So you are saying that if you find a piece of sandpaper on a pitchers glove, the umpire should not check him because opposite manager did not formally request it? That is also a crock! It is MLB and umpires responsibility for upholding integrity of the game. There will be a Game 3 and this will be temporarily forgotten until Game 6 but when there is smoke there is fire. This is a conspiracy to protect Rogers. There is also precedence for MLB doing this. Four years ago, they actually caught Roger Clemens doctoring a ball in Yankee Stadium with a piece of sandpaper on his glove. They made no issue of it and the next inning they showed Clemens with a new glove. Selig is only protecting the cheaters. My guess is that if Congress had not come out on steroids issue, it would still be going on. That is only reason they are going after Bonds,McGwire,Sosa, etc. They are using them as scapegoats. Media and public are going to make this a big issue and force them to investigate Rogers.
 

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Kojak said:
fishhead,
I am making no excuses for last night, Cards deserved to lose, they were outplayed. But funny thing is, Cards who could not hit a lick through 8 innings, start hitting when Rogers leaves game? Jones is no great shake but you don't see teams turn it on that much after getting 2 hits the entire game to that point!

Fans in STL are upset that Larussa did nothing. When I say upset, UPSET? They feel Larussa's loyalty should be to winning WS instead of protecting his friend Leyland from embarrassment. I actually feel for Larussa and actually differ from what most think. Tony is keeping it about the game and it is not his fault or responsibility. It is MLB's responsibility.

This is a ridilous argument. They started hitting the ball when rogers left because he is way the hell better than todd jones.
 

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royalfan,
If I said the sky is blue you would tell me it is red. If you can't see the possibility of what Rogers has done then it is you with the blinders on like always. I am not holding up saying Cards lost game because of it. My point is a cheater is a cheater regardless of team or situation. Rogers is better than Jones and I recognized that. You need to stop selectively taking a word I say and making an arguement towards me on it and be open minded on entire arguement. Keep it to discussion not personal.
 

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Maybe LaRussa did not want to ask Marquez to check Rogers...because maybe Weaver is using something too...

Hard to figure that Duncan worked such a "miracle" on Weaver in a short period of time...when he could not work the same "miracle" on Ponson...and he had him in spring training.

If not Weaver...maybe LaRussa knows some of his pitchers are using some stuff too.

Who knows...

But you can't call out LaRussa on why he didn't have him checked...and then say that it is not LaGenius' responsibility.
 

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I think Larussa handled it in a very classy way. It is common knowledge this stuff goes on in baseball. No doubt some of the cards pitchers use it as well. This is the first guy in a while to get caught redhanded (and imo was stupid not to do a better job hiding it) but Larussa handled it well given the widespread use of it.
 

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royalfan said:
This is a ridilous argument. They started hitting the ball when rogers left because he is way the hell better than todd jones.

yeah that is what I thought too...one guy leaves and then the ball is the size of a beach ball all the sudden....I don't think just because Rogers left it had anything to do with what happened in the 9th...it wasn't like St Louis started hammering the ball either.
 

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peteep said:
I think Larussa handled it in a very classy way. It is common knowledge this stuff goes on in baseball. No doubt some of the cards pitchers use it as well. This is the first guy in a while to get caught redhanded (and imo was stupid not to do a better job hiding it) but Larussa handled it well given the widespread use of it.

Larussa never handles anything in a classy way. He's a jackass who will use every edge possible to extract an advantage over his opponent. He either noticed Roger's hand and was waiting for the best time to screw the Tigers over, or he didn't see it. The ump told Rogers to wash it off, Rogers did, then shut down St. Louis.

And seriously, Cards fans better not say anything about doctoring a ball when you have Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan on your team.
 
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TonyMar said:
Izzy is a better closer than Jones...and that ain't saying much.

no he's not, are you kidding, maybe in previous seasons but should be going off what each player has done recently and Izzy was horrid
 

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MrCleo said:
no he's not, are you kidding, maybe in previous seasons but should be going off what each player has done recently and Izzy was horrid

Ok.

They are both shitty.

Jones 37 saves/ 43 chances

Izzy 33 saves/ 43 chances

Jones 2-6 3.94 ERA

Izzy 4-8 3.55 ERA

Jones 64 IP 70 Hits

Izzy 58 IP 47 Hits

Rodney and Zumaya are better than Jones...

Just wait...Jones will blow a save in this series.
 

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