Why small books have it tough !

Doug · Jan 9, 2007

I was talking to a CR bookie earlier. He asked me an interesting question. He asked me how much I think he has to win to actually make a dollar, after expenses.

Now a book should hold maybe 4.5% on straight bets, a book like CRIS will hold less with early lines, high limits and a sharper base of players. This place holds over 6% because they have square players.

But after the win, he told me that expenses eat up $5 out of every $6 they win. Stuff like NT fees, phones, salaries, rents, etc. It's got to worse for a start-up with larger bonuses.

You have to win a lot to cover that, you can't do it without volume.

I can't name the book, they don't like publicity, prefer to not be mentioned in forums, carry a decent rating, but don't advertise much.

Labeeb · Jan 9, 2007

Did you ask for your free NT withdraw after the conversation was over?

WVU · Jan 9, 2007

the book not liking publicity is probably the bulk of the problem

cincy_ · Jan 9, 2007

Doug said:
I can't name the book, they don't like publicity, prefer to not be mentioned in forums, carry a decent rating, but don't advertise much.

I would think its Grande.

Doug · Jan 9, 2007

Labeeb said:
Did you ask for your free NT withdraw after the conversation was over?

I called to try to transfer to 5D, but my guy offered me the NT early, so I took that instead.

steaktartar · Jan 9, 2007

cincy_ said:
I would think its Grande.

two small problems tho grande not samll and not in CR

steaktartar · Jan 9, 2007

small sorry cincy i cant type

lapdance · Jan 9, 2007

grande not small.

Doug · Jan 9, 2007

A really small book will lose money on overhead costs exceeding what they win, if they win.

It's just so hard to start now, you need bonuses to lure in whatever players you can, but those aren't the players you want, then advertising is huge, but you have to let people know you exist, and you fight the well established full juice places, plus the low juice shops and exchanges.

cincy_ · Jan 9, 2007

steak tartar said:
two small problems tho grande not samll and not in CR

Doug never said he talked to a small book, he talked about making it as a small book and as a startup ... and Grande is based out of Costa Rica.

If you know the people at Grande, they are VERY friendly - the type of people who would talk about these things.

PatrickMcIrish · Jan 9, 2007

Bookies are notorious for the poor mouthing. Not saying I don't believe it but that does seem a little outlandish to me, he's saying over 83% of their hold is going to expenses before they make dollar one? I don't know, never worked at an offshore book but that seems outrageously high to me.

The big boys who open early (CRIS, Greek, Pinny for example) and take all comers don't hold crap % wise in comparison to what their square counterparts do but they more than make up for it in volume. What good is holding over 6% (which is great BTW) if you have no volume?

PatrickMcIrish · Jan 9, 2007

I doubt it's Grande, they aren't small and I seriously doubt they keep over 6% and up of their straight action, they don't have that kind of clientele. If so they are making money hand over fist.

cincy_ · Jan 9, 2007

Patrick McIrish said:
I doubt it's Grande, they aren't small and I seriously doubt they keep over 6% and up of their straight action, they don't have that kind of clientele. If so they are making money hand over fist.

Youre right about the clientele, but Doug never said it was a small book

Doug · Jan 9, 2007

they have handle, I talk to this guy often, he just prefers his book's name not even mentioned in forums, so I comply. They cover NT Instacash, a lot comes in that way. I don't know what average expenses are in the industry, but would like to hear what others think they are.

Doug · Jan 9, 2007

Patrick McIrish said:
I doubt it's Grande, they aren't small and I seriously doubt they keep over 6% and up of their straight action, they don't have that kind of clientele. If so they are making money hand over fist.

I think that 6% is probably everything ( straight, parlay,teaser,etc.)combined ( but not casino).

D2bets · Jan 9, 2007

If they want volume then they should move to -107. People will come. There a gazillion vanilla -110 books, unless you're CRIS or Greek you can't separate yourself. Move to -107 and triple your volume. Lower hold but still more profits. It's not rocket science.

PatrickMcIrish · Jan 9, 2007

Yeah it's weird trying to figure out why some books operate the way they do. I mean you don't have to try and compete with the clearinghouse giants of the industry to make yourself more attractive to players and increase your handle. I guess it's more a business model of what a place is trying to do. Some hang their lines last when they have shaken out completely, throw anyone out who wins 2 bets in a row and refuse to take a decent sized wager. Then they wonder why their expenses are so high in comparison to what their profits are?

I agree with D2, try to drop the juice and it might surprise you. You don't need to be a genius lineman and hold ungodly amounts if you get the action, that will cover for a lot of mistakes. I guarantee you CRIS and some other giants don't hold much more than 1% on their straight stuff but they more than make up for it in volume. I don't know, just seems like there could be more of a healthy balance at some of these square books in how they conduct business. That said I am sure it's a lot easier to be sitting here and giving out the advice than it is being the one's trying to implement it, LOL.

Dr.Knowitall · Jan 9, 2007

Stop believing that these big books can't hold a good percentage of all their action. I have been with a couple different books that would beat the wiseguys every month. These guys are not winning what you all think. They are not that good.

Grande, CRIS, Greek, and Pinnicle all end up beating the wiseguys for months at a time. Out of 1 wiseguy winning this month, 4 others might have lost. Don't think for a minute these books get beat daily by these wiseguys. That is not the case at all.

Dr.Knowitall · Jan 9, 2007

But they will blast any book that tries to deal them odds with some screen watcher moving the lines. They will rip apart the books that think all you have to do is put up a line and beat everyone. You just can't do that and that's the main reason the scumbag books will toss anyone with a pulse.

steaktartar · Jan 9, 2007

cincy_ said:
Doug never said he talked to a small book, he talked about making it as a small book and as a startup ... and Grande is based out of Costa Rica.

If you know the people at Grande, they are VERY friendly - the type of people who would talk about these things.

grande is and HAS been in dominican republic for 19 years and i know the owner

Why small books have it tough !

Rx God

New member

New member

New member

Rx God

powdered milkman

powdered milkman

New member

Rx God

New member

SportsOptions/Line up with the pros

SportsOptions/Line up with the pros

New member

Rx God

Rx God

New member

SportsOptions/Line up with the pros

New member

New member

powdered milkman

Forum statistics

Share this page