What I really fear ...

cincy_ · Jan 11, 2007

... is that MANY books will also close shop after the Super Bowl.

At that point, how would you feel if YOUR book sold out to BetRoyal? Or if BetUS bought all the US post-up accounts of an A+ sportsbook?

It would truly be a killer. I have had the scumbags at Hollywood sell me out once and I fear it will happen again.

ensign_lee · Jan 11, 2007

Indeed.

Dawoofdaddy · Jan 11, 2007

If Pinnacle is down and out, I wouldnt trust any book as a US citizen.

For those that think because they are in another country their money is safe at an offshore book, unless that book is taking action from mostly overseas customers for overseas sporting events, I wouldnt trust those books either.

teazeman · Jan 11, 2007

DAWOOFDADDY said:
If Pinnacle is down and out, I wouldnt trust any book as a US citizen.

as one of the sharpest people here i value greatly your opinion, you just answered a lot of questions in my mind with the above statement.

LarryTalbot · Jan 11, 2007

Not even Spiro, WSEX, Cris, and Bodog?

cincy_ · Jan 11, 2007

wildemu said:
Not even Spiro, WSEX, Cris, and Bodog?

Like I said in another thread, the ONLY book that has faced the music but answered the call is WSEX.

When Cohen was indicted, they could have folded or even pulled a BOS on us and they didn't.

sean1 · Jan 11, 2007

I have less than 10% of my bankroll offshore at this juncture. I pulled almost all of it back about 1-2 weeks ago - I dont need that much offshore for the NFL playoffs - lines dont vary. I thought we would see some pull outs in Jan/Feb. I never would have guessed Pinnacle, but thought some little books would give the stiffing before the law went into effect.

I am about as pro risk as they come.

Note to non US wagerers - your money is no more safe than US wagers. If a book goes out of business it goes out of business.

I would recommend keeping only what you absolutely need offshore right now.

I brought a lot back on Jan 1st. I really need to start an active expensive business before the end of 2007. Might have to buy a bar or something.

Sean

Domer · Jan 11, 2007

What I fear most is now more than likely inevitable...Neteller is going to leave the marketplace. Been rumored that they would, but now I think it is a definite.

I don't fear so much that there won't be offshore betting options. Where there is a will, there is a way. Markets create themselves like that.

luckythirteen · Jan 11, 2007

well i am going to vegas for the afc/nfc conference championships.........so i can bet those games then..........after they are done, i am placing my super bowl wager right then and there......and then i will wait to see how this all plays out and not gamble until march madness if necessary

Dawoofdaddy · Jan 11, 2007

teazeman said:
as one of the sharpest people here i value greatly your opinion, you just answered a lot of questions in my mind with the above statement.

Thanks t-man. Remember I was also called an alarmist, chicken little, and other things regarding bos and the gambling bill passing.

Even I am surprised about pinny going down like this w/o any warning and before super bowl. They took down credit and post-up action, so this is serious.

Another poster gets credit for this (cris4700 in another thread), but pinnacle provided alot of liquidity to other books via scalps and middles.

Other books already on shaky financial ground could be out of cash soon and I wouldnt trust any money (other than small time pocket change) at any book right now.

This included us and non-us citizens. Most businesses, and this surely included offshore books...if they lose 10-20% of their gross sales, they go tits

up.

Dawoofdaddy · Jan 11, 2007

sean1 said:
I have less than 10% of my bankroll offshore at this juncture. I pulled almost all of it back about 1-2 weeks ago - I dont need that much offshore for the NFL playoffs - lines dont vary. I thought we would see some pull outs in Jan/Feb. I never would have guessed Pinnacle, but thought some little books would give the stiffing before the law went into effect.

I am about as pro risk as they come.

Note to non US wagerers - your money is no more safe than US wagers. If a book goes out of business it goes out of business.

I would recommend keeping only what you absolutely need offshore right now.

I brought a lot back on Jan 1st. I really need to start an active expensive business before the end of 2007. Might have to buy a bar or something.

Sean

Teazeman and others...sean1 is the founding member of the glass half-full club here at rx....if he is worried, all should be worried.

:drink:

PatPatriot · Jan 11, 2007

What I really fear ... <HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>... is that MANY books will also close shop after the Super Bowl.

Most definatley...Also, what stops these other OSB's from fuckin with people with smaller US accounts under 10K?.....Its over.

Whoson1st · Jan 11, 2007

According to an interview someone at Pinny did w/ the Shrink. They stated that the reason for leaving the US is because fewer and fewer banking options are available.

PatPatriot · Jan 11, 2007

According to an interview someone at Pinny did w/ the Shrink. They stated that the reason for leaving the US is because fewer and fewer banking options are available.

Thats fuckin horseshit...The only way that is true is if these places like Netteller are ready to close shop and Pinn knows it....that would then be a real reason.

cincy_ · Jan 11, 2007

Pat Patriot said:
Thats fuckin horseshit...The only way that is true is if these places like Netteller are ready to close shop and Pinn knows it....that would then be a real reason.

Now THAT makes sense.

sean1 · Jan 11, 2007

Yep - If I am worried others should be worried.

I am not "worried" as I believe offshore gambling will always be available. I am concerned that some money offshore could end up getting stiffed. Right now, risk vs reward means I'd rather have most my money in the US.

At the beginning of football, risk vs reward put about 90% of it offshore. It is now at 10%. I mainly focus on football.

I felt there was a reasonable chance neteller would shut down on Jan 1 or 270 days after the law went into effect or whenever they announce they have written the law (If they ever do). I did not want a lot of money offshore at any of those 3 times... I do think neteller will pay if they close, but it could take a while.

Before Pinny died, I planned to reup a bunch after Jan 1st. Now I am giving it some thought. I may do some speculating in other things for a while and see how this pans out... Better than getting caught with your pants down. IN order for me to make money, I have to use a lot of mid level outs and neteller. Without these, I'm not interested in fighting the sharps for good numbers at 2-3 books.

In any case, I think it is reasonably prudent to not have much money in so so books after football ends and I dont think I would ahve a lot in neteller on Jan 1, 270 days (Like June or so) or if we here the feds are actually writing the laws.

Worried - no. Offshore gambling will always exist.

Minimizing risk - yes. I feel we will see some books close there doors and some may not pay. Would you pay if another government put you out of business? I supsect at least 10% of bookies would say no.

Sean

PatPatriot · Jan 11, 2007

It seems to me that all these banking outlets were waiting on the wording on the legistlation and it appears that the language is strong enough that its going to scare the NeTell's out of the game...Pinn see's the writing on the wall.

I'm going to have to talk to Al Swearengen on this one.

Dawoofdaddy · Jan 11, 2007

sean1 said:
Yep - If I am worried others should be worried.

Worried - no. Offshore gambling will always exist.

Minimizing risk - yes. I feel we will see some books close there doors and some may not pay. Would you pay if another government put you out of business? I supsect at least 10% of bookies would say no.

Sean

My guess would be much higher than at least 10%. Alot of books will simply go broke w/o the pinny scalp/middle action. Even if alot of them wanted to pay their customers, they wont pay out of pocket to do so.

Dont often agree with your optimism about this topic, but still like knowing what you think.

indysports · Jan 11, 2007

As one the "definite optimist" on this board, I'am inclined to believe the offshore industry as we know is in deep deep trouble... the most important problem is the fear of being "stiffed" . Not that we could trust these places before but now they have an "out". Sorry folks we are out of business because of US government......Pinnacle was the leader and the best site. No one and I mean No one can "guarantee" you that "your" site will be around.. Its time to stop taking chances and regroup-- Believe me and believe Dawoofdaddy.... The sky is falling on us and the rx as we know it!!!!!

PatPatriot · Jan 11, 2007

Yup

the most important problem is the fear of being "stiffed" . Not that we could trust these places before but now they have an "out". Sorry folks we are out of business because of US government......Pinnacle was the leader and the best site. No one and I mean No one can "guarantee" you that "your" site will be around.. Its time to stop taking chances and regroup-- Believe me and believe Dawoofdaddy.... The sky is falling on us and the rx as we know it!!!!!

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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1>Quote:
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Most definatley...Also, what stops these other OSB's from fuckin with people with smaller US accounts under 10K?.....Its over.
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