which financial market has the most risk and lets you leverage the most

I know I worded this kind of bad but I think most understan. My point is the #1 reason I like betting sports is I can generally put $ 5,000 a day into it and would on average make 2-3% off of it. Which doesn't sound like much until you realize that is around $125 profit every day. I know it is a lot more vioatale then that but this is the average.

In the stock market, what type of investing uses leverage and high risk/ high reward that is similiar to betting sports.

options?
commoditites?
day trading?


thinking about after hoops getting involved in some mid day investing and hoping to break even. I am a big time beginner so hoping to break even. Any suggetsion on what type of investing most mirrors sports wagering. I do not want to buy and hold and I know that most will tell me this is crazy going against this but am not that type of investor. Not worth it to me.

looking to take about 10k and have about 2-3 hours a day and hope to breakeven and learn something new and exciting that isn't too difficult and hopefully catch the fever on some form of LEGAL investing.

Hell I figure if I can put $300 on George Mason -10.5 today and feel good about it and not know 1 thing about it. then i can do something similar with stocks.

The most leverage is US bonds. Margin requirement for US bonds is 1%.

Would not say this is the most risky though.

-Sean

I want to find one thing and study the shit out of it. Any suggestions sean.

All of my gambling in sports is based on market capping (basically following steam/momentum and beating the closing line). I beleieve in this 100%. Is there something similar?

One thing - I don't know.

I like sports and hope sports stabilize in a few months.

Outside of sports,

Some people make a shit load of money trading bonds. The leverage of 1% for US up to about 6% for municiple lets you trade a lot for a little.

Currency offers big leverage as well. I know some guys who clean up on it, but I know nothing about it.

Another route is to follow one sector of stocks really well - oil, small biotech, whatever. Call their investor relations, get to know them, listen to their conferences, ask the CEO/CFO questions, etc... You can trade options in these as well.

Commodities - I know nothing about these.

Mortgage bonds - I know nothing about these.

An expert in any of these things can make a lot of money, but if your not doing sports and you become an expert, you might as well work for a big firm trading billions instead of your dough...

Sean

Iceman said:

I want to find one thing and study the shit out of it. Any suggestions sean.

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If I have to stop doing what God put me on this earth to do, bet sports, I think real estate is the next best thing. Look at property 6 to 8 hours a day. Make 400 low-ball can't lose offers a year. Get only two of them accepted and make 40 or 50 dimes on each, and you have 80 to 100 dimes right there. I've hit home runs with the properties I bought here in Florida over the past 3 years, but it was a strong bull market in housing. It's more leg work and requires more cunning to make $$$ in a bear market, but it can definately be done, and every house you look at and every offer you put down makes you sharper. As far as your local market goes, hit the streets for about a week and you could qualify as an expert in your neighborhood market. There's a shitload of over-priced properties out there, but once in a while you'll run across someone who's in a pickle, or who has undervalued their property, and that's the one you jump on. You'll know it when you see it.

Forex.com

Trading currencies with maximum risk and maximum leverage.

I think you'd like option trading though. The only problem is the pattern daytrading rules that limit you to 3 daytrades in a rolling 5 day period unless you have $25K invested. Hold overnight and that isn't a problem.

Iceman:


Buying options on stocks, way out of the money, provides the greatest amount of leverage that I can think of. However the chances that these types of trades will be winners are very slim (think taking 20 point dogs on the money line).

Real estate is a good one, but you need a decent "real" job. If you have one, you can get 0-5% down loans and it would be hard not to make money.

You can speculate somewhere like Miami Beach, where mortgages run 2+times rent each month or you can buy shitty apts somewhere like next to Ohio State where rents run more than the mortgage payment.

Sean

futures market. U get up to 200:1 leverage.


ps: is that enough leverage for u ? LOL

sean1 said:

Real estate is a good one, but you need a decent "real" job. If you have one, you can get 0-5% down loans and it would be hard not to make money.

You can speculate somewhere like Miami Beach, where mortgages run 2+times rent each month or you can buy shitty apts somewhere like next to Ohio State where rents run more than the mortgage payment.

Sean

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You don't need a job if you have a big enough BR going into it. What I'm talking about is buying soemthing that's worth $300,000 for $260,000 or $250,000, and flipping it. There are deals like that out there. You have to look hard to find them, but all it takes is one such deal every six months to keep you going. Punching a clock sometimes COSTS you money.

Easily the futures market Ice, this is the place for you to go study IMO.

Bonds by far....

foreign exchange has the highest leverage

avaliable - esp in the non regulated wholesale side


problem for foreign exchange compared to bonds is the firms themselves, they have almost no capital compared to the risk they hold on behalf of clients, if the firm blows up you basically have lost your money

in futures the futures exchange holds your money effectively so the liquidity of the firm you are dealing with is not such an issue.

Forex typically will allow 100:1 leverage, if not more.

1. The market is open 24/7 except weekend.
2. No problems with liquidity
3. The typical charting software is quite advanced yet easy to use nowadays
4. Opportunities everywhere! The EUR/USD typically has a range of 100 pips a day, GBP/USD 150+ pips. With 100:1 leverage, you should be able to trade in lots where 1 pip = $1,000

Last but not least Bush won't come after your ass :smoker2:

Trading curencies also allows you to set predetermined stops and limits. This allows you to not have to watch the market constantly for changes. I trade USD/JPN and USD/CHF at 100:1 which is $1,000.00 leverage to $100,000.00. Small in terms of what the currency market will let you do, but I manage to make +- $350.00/Month without much sweat. Certain events on the finanacial calendar can create big swings in the market very rapidly, such as GDP, jobs reports, etc. Also, you can find niches at times for trades, as an example, I trade the USD/JPN around 5:00 to 8:00 pm here on the west coast as it represents market opening the next day in Japan. This time period generally has consistent moves that do not have the bigger swings of, say, the European opening or the US market at 4:00 to 6:00 am here on the west coast. Also, now with spreads on interest rates favoring the USD, you can make some fairly good cost of carry money (premium) by holding the USD against, say the JPN.

commodity futures markets, no doubt about it.....

exactly what your looking for............

big board trades: 8:30 am / 3:00 pm cst

grains trade: 9:30 am/ 1:15 pm cst

meats trade: 9:05-10 am/ 1:00 pm cst

looks to be what your looking for time wise......

im stepping up my game this monday to what eventually will lead me to fulltime trading.......

for me, its position trading and not daytrading........... daytrading way too stressful for me, your limited by time, you generally miss the big moves and this is where the serious money comes in.....

for me, its about chart reading and pricing....... along with knowing the overall trend..... then simply buy UP trending markets on dips, and selling DOWN trending markets on rallys....... these points are at strategic locations, based on supp and res, along with old highs and lows on the chart..... simple and as difficult as that.......

here is a perfect example of a trade that im looking at for monday...

April Live cattle close friday at 93.57, i am now looking to be a buyer on any weakness in this market,,,,,,,,,, i want to enter Long (buy) somewhere in the 93.20/93.45 area,,,,,,,, my profit target will be 1.32pts or somwhere in the 94.55/94.75 area, my risk will be to 92.45.............. so im going to risk around 100pts to make 132pts......... this is just a little better than 1:1 but there is more involved... i have indicators that will get me out early and will cut the loss......... im risking $400 to make $530...... but the average on all my trades will more than likely look like a 2:1 ration trade because of technical indicators that i use....... so i am pleased with a 2:1 trade...... the $400 risk is the absolute worse case scenario...... at a $500 profit, i will then take my money off the table, and if i like the trade still, i can probably put it back on at a better price......

for me, i want a stoploss and profit target in the market at all times.. then it simply becomes a matter of what is hit first.......... each trade has a detailed plan for entry, exucution and exits.........

i can elaborate more about this cattle trade, if you care to hear it........

im going to exclusively trade the meats, grains, sugar, emini sp 500 market..

ive told you this is right up your alley,,,,, its not chinese but it does take work........... Learn how to read a chart, they are the road map, along with pricing (for a smaller time frame).........

Charts for the bigger picture, when designing the trade and pricing for my indicators, to signal an early exit, thus keeping losses small......

im ready to go this monday.........

the cattle trade i mentioned was simply a 1 lot trade, this monday i am moving to 2 lot trades, so double the loss and profit..... eventually i will get to my goal of 3 lot trading....... i could do it now but i choose to still go slowly........

email me, if you desire to talk...... ill be online in the early market hours each day, then i hand my trades off to broker and watch on TV or call on phone the remainder of the trading day....... once the trades are working..

the trade i mentioned would take anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days......... it would require $1000 worth of margin and the $400 that you could lose....... so your tieing up $1400 to clear $500, so 36% in 2 hours/2 days and one phone call........

reading this book called "Pit Bull" right now and it has me all fired up. Its abotu a trader in the 70's/80's (Buzzy Schwartz). Seems to be right up my alley. He talks about using market indictors to predict future prices. In a way I do the same with Pinny dynamic lines and don best screen. Also alot of other similaritities.

Like I said earlier I don't have the terminology down but seems very close. This is what makes my heart beat (market capping). At first I thought it may be dumb to pursue this because I know nothing about the market but then it hit me I really don't anything about cbb and I have bet the hell out of that today and done very well by concentrating on some key things that have helped me in the past and I am having a huge day.

I absoluelty love sitting in front of the computer with 2 screens going and some helpful software and trying to make money and in this game everyone and everything is legit. My fear will be the competition.

I knew reading a few books on these subjects would spark my interest but I never thought there would be this many similarities to what I am doing somewhat successfull right now with sports. Like SSI said I am surprised alot of guys aren't looking into this. Confidence is a huge thing but once you get a system down on how you want to approach this your confidence should be high. I can't name 20 players in all of CBB right now but I am killing it this year because I learned from some really sharp guys on these forums.

I knew it would be a matter of time Ice before you would be hooked.

Journeyman said:

I knew it would be a matter of time Ice before you would be hooked.

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still have a long way to go. Need to find what my calling is on this stuff. still not sure as my knowledge on the subject is poor. Still searching.

You think futures?

I know 1 thing if it is as close to sports as I think that I am in. Still can't figure it out though.

Ice take it from me, ive wagered for over 20yrs......... been in and out of the trading world alot as well.......... they are very similiar........ in a lot of ways......... my opinion, you can limit risk better in trading......

for me, its all about predicting price movement, pretty much on a short term basis ( i didnt say daytrading).......... you do this with charts and pricing......... you have it pegged 100%..

ill tell you what, i know nothing about cattle but i know about pricing and how to read a daily chart and i can tell you that cattle are a buy monday, on the first sign of weakness.........

its all about technicals and not fundamentals for me..........

Ice, pick out your markets, get to know them inside and out..... do a pricing chart by hand, learn to read a daily chart...... these are your road maps...... when technical indicators are broken, get out immediately..

here is an example of that...... with this cattle trade that i spoke of...... my stoploss will be at 92.45 but my indicator is at 92.70....... if 92.70 comes out (92.70 was fridays low btw)......... this market will bounce off some support and ill sell then, thus reducing my risk and i wont lose the entire 400.......... you cannot put your stop at 92.65 though or it would take you out there........

know your indicators, know your supp and resistance, put your stoploss and profit target in (when you enter trade), then trust your work completely......... and you can quote me on this.......