If you knew for a 100% fact that you were a better sportsbettor than at poker

would you never play poker? Just taking a little dig on Chops thread about poker.uppy:

Lighten up guys. Watching a guy play a few poker hands tells us really nothing and a guy trying to prove somethig playing a few sit and go's means nothing in the big scope of things.

The guy found a game he can beat and is excitied, leave him alone. Plus doesn't everyone think they are poker studs. I know 3 guys personally in my hometown that have probalbly never played in any big type games in there life and have looked me in the face and told me they are thinking about playing at a real serious level. Blame it on TV, it made every one of these ordinary Joes think they have what it takes to be a pro.


Tell someone you are making alot of money betting sports and they think you are lying. I witness this all the time. It has got to the point I quit telling anyone close to me about my sports wagering success as it gets uncomfortable and I know they are worried about me and my poetenial problem in their eyes. Tell them I am a winning poker player ( I am not) and I am revered and put right up thier with a Wall Street expert. Give poker credit they totally changed their culture and society's image towards them.

the problem with his thread is it could encourage others to think they can also beat the game. I also proved that he was not in fact beating the game, but is a lifetime loser at more than -20% roi. He was bragging and was called out. It just goes to show that you cannot believe everything you read on these forums, even if the poster is well known and well liked.

I have been much better with sports than poker. Wish I never got into online poker really. It's like a tax of extra vig that just eats away at your bankroll.

hello Iceman, bought some more corn today at 404.25

currently holding 4 long from 405.25 (big trade for me)........

Get some soybeans son............

I know 10x more guys that make a living playing poker than they do betting sports. Sports betting is much more capital intensive and it takes many years of hard work to grind it out and grow your roll.

Online poker you can have 50k and be adequately rolled for multitabling 30/60 and make $5k+ a week if you are a very good player.

Sports betting with $50k you ought not to be firing more than $1k a game and at those bet sizes you're doing well to make $2k a week longterm.

Sports betting success is more to do with your overall talent level and how big your roll is. Risk management is much more of an issue. Success in online poker is more a function of how many hours you put it even more so than how good you are.

Personally I'm better at betting sports but like to fill the quiet hours between 1pm and 6pm ET when the market is quiet with a few hands of holdem. The 2 are perfectly compatable careers but online poker is a lot more of a steady income than the large bankroll and higher variance associated with making the same amounts from sports betting.

:lolBIG:

Hey Ice, can you respond to this thread?

WVU said:

the problem with his thread is it could encourage others to think they can also beat the game. I also proved that he was not in fact beating the game, but is a lifetime loser at more than -20% roi. He was bragging and was called out. It just goes to show that you cannot believe everything you read on these forums, even if the poster is well known and well liked.

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Dude, thats a lifetime number at sites that I hardly ever play at anymore.

I had about $300 bucks at FULLTILT when the banking situation changed with the new enforcement, so instead of wasting my time trying to get a measly $300 payout, I went and played it very aggresivly, all or nothing style.

I was trying to build it up to at least $1000, then get a NETELLER right before all this mess shut down. Check the dates on the games, it was right before the NETELLER stuff hit the fan.

I also played a small sum at PS.

Other than that, I have been playing nothing but BODOG poker for over a year. All your numbers are outdated.

I told you I was a losing player my first year, I said that in post #1.

God why is this so hard to understand.

Although I had a semi rough day today, I am still in +money for these 2 days of tracked tourneys that many eye witness can vouch for.

Despite today, im still up.

CHOPTALK said:

:lolBIG:

Hey Ice, can you respond to this thread?

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http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=458052&highlight=ICEMAN+rubber

Chop,

Provide some statistics that you have kept that supports your story. I know the real story so be careful what you post. You are up after one winning day and one losing day. It is only a matter of about 4 or 5 more tournaments before you are down. I have stats for whatever time period you want to brag about.

Iceman said:

would you never play poker? Just taking a little dig on Chops thread about poker.uppy:

Lighten up guys. Watching a guy play a few poker hands tells us really nothing and a guy trying to prove somethig playing a few sit and go's means nothing in the big scope of things.

The guy found a game he can beat and is excitied, leave him alone. Plus doesn't everyone think they are poker studs. I know 3 guys personally in my hometown that have probalbly never played in any big type games in there life and have looked me in the face and told me they are thinking about playing at a real serious level. Blame it on TV, it made every one of these ordinary Joes think they have what it takes to be a pro.


Tell someone you are making alot of money betting sports and they think you are lying. I witness this all the time. It has got to the point I quit telling anyone close to me about my sports wagering success as it gets uncomfortable and I know they are worried about me and my poetenial problem in their eyes. Tell them I am a winning poker player ( I am not) and I am revered and put right up thier with a Wall Street expert. Give poker credit they totally changed their culture and society's image towards them.

Click to expand...

If sports betting is so profitable to you than why don't you post your picks?

I just had to respond to your post, Braveheart, as it covered a lot of ground. First, I agree strongly with these:

• Sports betting success is more to do with your overall talent level and how big your roll is. Risk management is much more of an issue.
• Success in online poker is more a function of how many hours you put it even more so than how good you are.

I am not sure I agree with these:

• Sports betting is much more capital intensive and it takes many years of hard work to grind it out and grow your roll.
• ...online poker is a lot more of a steady income than the large bankroll and higher variance associated with making the same amounts from sports betting

I didn't get to say anything in CHOPTALK's thread yet (I just it all in its entirety) but first of all, I can really say something about each "career" since I have done some of each in the last few years since 2003 or so.

Braveheart, you are right about one key thing in sports betting. RISK/MONEY MANAGEMENT!! It was interesting when I saw something in this forum recently about how many amateurs/recreationals actually *do* make about 45%-55% of their picks altogether but get busted by terrible money management.

Now, after playing poker during evenings and some weekends from 2003-2006, since I have a full-time job, I only could put probably 10 hours into poker a week with small bankroll. That reason alone was why I finally completely stopped playing poker in 2006 once I bought my condo last summer. I told myself this, "Sports betting only takes a little time on the computer (especially that I don't personally handicap the sports games myself)... perhaps only 5-10 minutes in any day where I am in a hurry (to just make the bets), but more often, 30 minutes-1 hour per day... mostly for record-keeping and/or surfing forums. Poker will force me to basically stay glued to my computer for a majority of the 2-3 hours per night that I could try to play in. No thanks."

I considered myself an average, but adaptive, passive-aggressive poker player who played in LHE, SnG's, MTT's, and some NLHE, both online and in person. I *know* I could have grinded it out for CONSISTENT winnings if I could contributee 20-30 hours per week. I tracked all my sessions and saw one big thing: POKER could be a consistent income but ONLY IF I played at quite high stakes like 30/60 you mentioned, Braveheart. Otherwise, "per hour" it was not worth the effort at 1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10. MTT's was even worse in $ per hour, especially at Party pre-UIGEA.

Anyway, I still wanted a side income and put more effort into sportsbetting last year. Prior to that, I had 2 or 3 wild years at sportsbetting on the side as I learned all the hard mistakes and money management. Now, I use a shared bankroll/budget so maybe my perception is different but I really think poker has "higher variance" than SB. If you were using example of 30/60 LHE, making even just 2 BB per hour at per table session is a challenge considering that you can have many sessions of -50 BB as well as many sessions of +40 BB. We're talking about a swing of $1K PER table session.

Not that flat-betting in sports are generally endorsed, but a $50K bankroll betting 2% on each bet would be equivalent to $1K bets as you mentioned.

Yes, we will have swings of winning 8 in a row and swings of losing 8 in a row, but for a person's state of mind, I really think I rather to lose 8 in a row at 2% of my BR by losing 8 bets in a week than experiencing losing several huge pots in NLHE in 4 hours when I was leading before the all-ins every single time. That'd make a poker player go on tilt more often than not, and even some who are disciplined will find their patience tested (as I did consider myself like that... thanks to online blackjack... best way to laugh off any negative variance when you force yourself to be reminded with BJ's lengthy variance in nature) . So for me, poker is higher variance. Not only that, you should have 200 BB's in your bankroll for playing the APPROPRIATE stakes and that's not for multiple table sessions, either. So I really think poker takes up more of your bankroll that you can UTILIZE (i.e. you could be needed to rely on 40% of your poker BR in one night at few tables at your preferred stakes, as opposed to 5 bets of 2% in sportsbetting.)

Sorry for the long post... for those who have observed me, I do babble and it's in my nature. Just wanted to throw in my perspectives.

* CalvinTy

WVU said:

the problem with his thread is it could encourage others to think they can also beat the game.

Click to expand...

For alot of people, poker is profitable and easier than sportsbetting. Maybe not for you, but for more than you think.

I also happen to believe chop. Anyone can pull up stats for any player at a random site and find that the player was losing, but that doesn't mean he is a losing player. It means that he either had a bad run, was first learning the game, or was goofing around at low limits.

I see no reason for you to attack him like this. Its doesn't reflect particularly well on your charachter.

primetime21 said:

For alot of people, poker is profitable and easier than sportsbetting. Maybe not for you, but for more than you think.

I also happen to believe chop. Anyone can pull up stats for any player at a random site and find that the player was losing, but that doesn't mean he is a losing player. It means that he either had a bad run, was first learning the game, or was goofing around at low limits.

I see no reason for you to attack him like this. Its doesn't reflect particularly well on your charachter.

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LMFAO. I have no character here. He was bragging and boasting impossible outcomes. I called him out with proof. Simple as that.

WVU said:

LMFAO. I have no character here. He was bragging and boasting impossible outcomes. I called him out with proof. Simple as that.

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Its not that simple. If you knew anything about poker and tracking people you would know that its not that simple. Especially since programs such as sharkscope don't work on all sites. And i am not defending chop, because for all i know he could be a jerk.

primetime21 said:

For alot of people, poker is profitable and easier than sportsbetting. Maybe not for you, but for more than you think.

I also happen to believe chop. Anyone can pull up stats for any player at a random site and find that the player was losing, but that doesn't mean he is a losing player. It means that he either had a bad run, was first learning the game, or was goofing around at low limits.

I see no reason for you to attack him like this. Its doesn't reflect particularly well on your character.

Click to expand...

WVU, you also have to consider players at different sites have different styles of play. I notice players at Full Tilt are more knowledgable about the game and usually would not be glued to only top pair for NL cash games. On the other hand, players at Bodog are fast and furious. They might not be as bad as Party but they play way too fast sometimes. So Chop might've found a style of play that he can exploit and hence the good current good results.

Can you tell me more about this software that you're using? Do they have any stats for me?

Valuebets said:

WVU, you also have to consider players at different sites have different styles of play. I notice players at Full Tilt are more knowledgable about the game and usually would not be glued to only top pair for NL cash games. On the other hand, players at Bodog are fast and furious. They might not be as bad as Party but they play way too fast sometimes. So Chop might've found a style of play that he can exploit and hence the good current good results.

Can you tell me more about this software that you're using? Do they have any stats for me?

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where do you play and what is your username? Of course play is different at different places and some players are much weaker than others. No players are strong enough to cash 50% anywhere.

I'm working on both, guys.

But I do think that the improvement on my poker skill the last couple month is a big step toward a winning player.

Watching a guy play a few poker hands tells us really nothing

It can, particularly if he explains his thought process

WVU said:

where do you play and what is your username? Of course play is different at different places and some players are much weaker than others. No players are strong enough to cash 50% anywhere.

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Its laughable but I play really low usually $10NL-$50NL cash games. But I did build my sportsbetting bankroll playing at the microlimits for a year. I'm just curious about the softwares that spy on people's statistics. My poker alias is just my rx screenname. Would love to know my stats.