Interesting question. You (we) need to compare to to other Hall of famers to compare numbers. I would guess he needs a few more wins as was stated above. His huge post season success is an absolute difference maker (the opposite of Arod BTW..oh yeah I am an angry Boston fan...and also Journey is posting next spouting Arods overall numbers and again ignoring his choking and failures on a yearly basis)....
I made a thread about A-Rods "potential" to have the most astronomical stats of all time , why this offended you I'm still not sure.
MY THREAD was not about A-Rod being a choker, in my opinion A-Rod has been a choker in the post season, that had NOTHING to do with my thread....you twisted it around to make it sound like I said A-Rod was a post season hero...
I wasn't posting about A-Rods great post seasons or his clutch performances , why are you suggesting I was 'spouting off' about anything other tan that I don't know....
I said he was on pace to have an enormous statisticall career (which he is) and that he had the perfect physical tools (which he does) quit trying to poke holes in what I said when it had nothing to do with A-Rods posts season failures.
Also Peyton Manning was in a very similar boat until this past season , with MANY failures in the post season, the paralells are uncanny between Manning and A-Rod actually.
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I just woke up actualy so I'm a little groggy lol , we've talked about this quite a bit on here, old poster Fishhead and I have debated this , I'll try and copy and paste my reasons (they haven't changed)
Of course if Schill were to win 65-75 more games he would be in, which isn't going to happen.
If this were the NBA Schilling would get in easily, much different criteria in the NBA ...
old thread
The arguerment for;
Two World Series Rings and both in very dramatic fashion.
Finished 2nd for Cy Young 3 times
3-time 20 game winner
184 wins coming into this season, will finish with over 200 career wins
Co MVP 2001 WS
The arguement against
Up until age 33 he was a slightly above average ,compiling a record of 110- 89.
11 seasons where he was a .500 or less pitcher.
He was 52-52 at age 29.
http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=305390&page=2&highlight=Curt+Schilling+hall+fame
The arguerment for;
Two World Series Rings and both in very dramatic fashion.
Finished 2nd for Cy Young 3 times
3-time 20 game winner
184 wins coming into this season, will finish with over 200 career wins
Co MVP 2001 WS
The arguement against
Up until age 33 he was a slightly above average ,compiling a record of 110- 89.
11 seasons where he was a .500 or less pitcher.
He was 52-52 at age 29.
http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=305390&page=2&highlight=Curt+Schilling+hall+fame
If anyone wants to talk about ARod and his status as a ballplayer you MUST MUST MUST mention his tremendous stats AND his postseason failures. To ignore either of them is not telling the story. This is my point. Baseball is a lot more than staring at someones stats and reciting them. You can look at Yaz's stats and make a case that he wasn't so great (which I have debated a zillion times even with smart people)...which is wrong. He is great if you add it all up. Absolutely great. I wrote a post on Manning not being a great comparison to Arod because when Manning played in many big games the conditions were against him....grass, poor weather (team not used to), going against greatest defensive mind in history in Belichick, going against better team in Patriots, and more....the odds were against Manning though you are right he has not gotten in done...but odds often were against him. In baseball and Arod's case he went one on one with the pitcher and didn't get it done. I feel it is a little different.
I said and still feel there is a gaping hole in Arods career for what he has done in the post season. This cannot be ignored. I think being on a team that stacked and yet he still is not rising to the occassion hurts him. People are responding to me and not mentioning this. You have got to be kidding me? Just like M Rivera post season success elevate him to another level from wherever he was it is the same with Arod the opposite way. I think it is a tremendous detriment to his level as a ballplayer. If he changes (which he might as he is in the right position with that talented team) then his status will change. But it has not to this point. You really have not mentioned his failures until above. You finally did. I like Arod (class guy, family guy) but that is not the point. This is not anti Yankee or anything like that. It is the truth in my view.
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Making an excuse for Peyton but not A-Rod? Makes absolutely no sense. A-Rod has been a mediocre but not great post season player, Peyton Manning was flat out awful before last season, and even last year he had some awful games. Arguably, since his rookie season, Peyton's 5 worst games in the NFL all came in the playoffs. And you say the conditions weren't right.
What, you think A-Rod had fair conditions and Peyton didn't? Playing against great defense in the post season is the same as hitting against great pitching. There is no difference what so ever, but you find a way to make A-Rod look worse and worse in your mind by developing theories why it is OK for one guy to struggle but not A-Rod.
Once again you are also ignoring the fact that before the last two seasons, in which there has never been more pressure on a player in the history of the game, A-Rod has been a very good post season hitter. To be exact, before the tough post seasons the last two years, A-Rod was hitting .310 with 6 HR's and 16 RBI's in 26 games.
That translates to 100 RBI's, 37 HR's, 25 SB's, 106 Runs scored, and a .310 average. Although that is not incredible for A-Rod that is far from not respectable. But you seem to feed on the New York media image of A-Rod instead of the facts. Yes he has struggled but there has never been a bigger stage for a player in the history of sports. No one else has ever endured the crap that A-Rod has gone through because the media has never had this kind of impact on Sports. Guys like Jeter who came up with the Yankees, have excuses made for their every mistake every day, but when A-Rod makes a mistake it is never lived down.
But to go back to your Peyton has played in unfair conditions, that is absolutely ludicrous because A-Rod faces the top notch pitching staffs with the weight of New York on his shoulders.
I do not agree with you. First off all far fetched to compare different sports and postions. Very hard and different. I just responded and would not bring that up myself. I gave my view and stick to it. As far as Arod you say he had a bad last two years postseason...well in 2004 the last 4 against the Sox (THE MOST IMORTANT GAMES IN HIS LIFE and MOST IMPORTANT GAMES OF THE YEAR)...HE failed and choked again. BADLY. So according to you the last two years and 2004 he failed...is pretty consistent failure and choking. My point is made. Open your eyes and see the facts. It is all laid out dude. If you can't see this or wish to ignore then fine....no problem and good luck. It is all right in front of us. Do with it whatever you want. I suggest a seeing eye dog!
Why were they the most important games of his life? Because they were of yours. Alex Rodriguez had been to the ALCS twice before,only playing once but I am sure those games meant just as much, if not more to him, since they were with the team he came up with. In his other ALCS against the Yankees he hit .409 with two HR's, 5 RBI's and the Mariners lost in 6 games. Just because those games were very important to you do not make them the most important games of his life. You are spinning this whole A-Rod theory because you are a Boston fan and feel that every Yankee's vs. Red Sox theory is the most important game of these guys lives.
Alex Rodriguez was a very good post season performer before the weight of a city was put on his shoulders, and it was not deservingly so. And I think the 26 games prior to his recent 9 game struggle were very important to A-Rod. But once again as a Red Sox fan you will proclaim those the most important games of his career.
He was a star in the post season before, and my stats are actually a little off because two of his games, that are listed as games, were defensive replacements and pinch hitting. You will once again point to recent history because that is what the memory does. But you have to take a guy by his whole career, and his career post season numbers are not even terrible even if we include the last two seasons. I hope he destroys the Red Sox this year because of the comments these moronic Red Sox fans are making because they wish that they picked him up over the Yankees.
I now find myself cheering for a guy that I never would have cheered for before.
Dude, I do not agree with you and will not keep making the same points. In the AL champioship Series one game from the WS, against their rivals, right on the verge....I got news for you..these games are as important as it gets. Certainly the most important of the year. Easily. Arod has choked time andtime again went it counted. Right here on the verge and again and again. You are getting silly now. They do not get much bigger than those games. No more on this today or the postseason choker today.
