How are the Cubs destroying these arms?

Search
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
8,541
Tokens
I mean seriously Prior and Wood were two great prospects and every year it is the same story, one on DL and the other out for the year! As a Cardinal fan, I find this amusing!!!
 

Rx. Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
2,879
Tokens
Two words: Dusty Baker

Ironic that the only time he doesn't overwork a pitcher, he loses the WS.
 

Woah, woah, Daddy's wrong, Mommy's right.
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
7,977
Tokens
Two words: Dusty Baker

Ironic that the only time he doesn't overwork a pitcher, he loses the WS.

he didn't have anything to do with Wood's initial problem. He also blew out Nen and Tavarez in SF though.
 

Woah, woah, Daddy's wrong, Mommy's right.
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
7,977
Tokens
In fairness to Dusty, the two of them didn't actually pitch a ton of innings. The most starts either had in a season was 33 and they only went 213, 211 and 211 IP when the league leaders are routinely in the 230-260 range.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
28,149
Tokens
In fairness to Dusty, the two of them didn't actually pitch a ton of innings. The most starts either had in a season was 33 and they only went 213, 211 and 211 IP when the league leaders are routinely in the 230-260 range.

The league leaders generally are vets though. Dusty was putting them in that range when Wood and Prior were both young guys, new into the league.

It'll be interesting to see if Verlander has problems down the road since he pitched a bunch last year.
 

morally bankrupt
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
5,005
Tokens
I don't think there is really blame to put around at all. Pitching a baseball is a very unnatural thing to do. Some pitchers like Glavine, Maddux, Clemens, etc are just born with rubber arms. Both these guys throw hard, and game after game it builds on you. They're just too fragile. Shit happens.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
28,149
Tokens
Also, wasn't Ben Sheets another one of those overworked young guys? He's having a ton of arm troubles the last few years and I believe he went like 250 innings in one of his early years.

Actually just looked it up. At 22, he went 151 innings. At 23, he went 216, then 220 and then 237. Since then, 156 and 106 thanks to injuries. Not 100% sure if the early work did him in or not though.
 

Woah, woah, Daddy's wrong, Mommy's right.
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
7,977
Tokens
Wood did blow his arm out before Baker started with the Cubs and he always had a f*d up arm angle. Prior is kind of surprising as he has really good mechanics.
 

Official Rx music critic and beer snob
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
25,128
Tokens
There has been some talk about Dusty burning out the Cub bullpen last year so the players could hit various incentive bonuses. The Cubs set-up guys have really sucked this year. That's why Dusty was well-known as a players manager.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
28,149
Tokens
I don't think there is really blame to put around at all. Pitching a baseball is a very unnatural thing to do. Some pitchers like Glavine, Maddux, Clemens, etc are just born with rubber arms. Both these guys throw hard, and game after game it builds on you. They're just too fragile. Shit happens.

Clemens came into the majors but only did 133 and 98 his first two years, after that he's gone crazy.

Maddux went 31 and 151 his first two but I don't think he really falls into the category we are talking about since I don't think he's ever been a power pitcher really.

Glavine started at 50 then didn't go over 200 until year 4.

Prior started at 160 his first year then went to 211.

Wood never was overloaded his first few years.

Hell, maybe some guys just can't handle 200+ innings. I don't see a major correlation between pitching a ton at the start and arm troubles but I'd say there seems to be a minor one.
 

Woah, woah, Daddy's wrong, Mommy's right.
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
7,977
Tokens
IMO, I also think they don't pitch enough growing up. Guys get on pitch counts early and in the minors hit 110 pitches and are done. They don't ever get used to throwing 130 or so pitches. Their arms aren't conditioned for throwing a lot and throwing often like they used to be.
 

Cui servire est regnare
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
11,033
Tokens
Its cause they baby these fuckin guys, you didn't hear about Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, ETC ETC blowing their arms out when pitching Complete games game after game AND in a 4 man rotation did you??

They need to throw MORE, not less!
 

New member
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
28,149
Tokens
IMO, I also think they don't pitch enough growing up. Guys get on pitch counts early and in the minors hit 110 pitches and are done. They don't ever get used to throwing 130 or so pitches. Their arms aren't conditioned for throwing a lot and throwing often like they used to be.

A could way to check would be to see how the arm history of some of the Japanese pitchers is since they are generally on much higher pitch counts. I think Dice-K has gone upwards of 200 pitches in a game before if I'm not mistaken. I believe he averaged like 150-160 in Japan. I'm assuming the youngsters pitch more as well.
 

Old School
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,128
Tokens
Sometimes shit just happens.

Look at when the Mets where supposed to have a nasty threesome until they all went down. Wilson,Izzy, and Pulsipher. They all went down too.

Sometime its just called fate
 

Woah, woah, Daddy's wrong, Mommy's right.
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
7,977
Tokens
That is where I was going Brock and Jake.
 

New member
Joined
Apr 21, 2002
Messages
28,149
Tokens
Prior is definitely a case study. Perfect form when pitching to avoid injuries and he's the most injured. Too much velocity maybe? But velocity doesn't hurt all pitchers. Preexisting injury that is getting worn more and more over time? Maybe... This topic is making my head spin trying to figure out how guys with perfect deliveries can get hurt where guys that pitch like their arm is about to fall off can stay healthy.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,108,228
Messages
13,449,815
Members
99,404
Latest member
byen17188
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com