Is daytrading in the stock market all luck or does it take skill?

Iceman · May 30, 2007

I have a 3 hour gap throught the day (12-3) where I am exploring some new things. I have always thought about day trading as it seems right up my alley but not sure if you can grind out a $1,000 a month.

Anyone have any good books to read on the subject? How much is a reasonable monthly return on your investment? Always seemed to me like alot of luck involved but with stock market usually going up it seems like there are more winners than losers.

I think I have the right mentality for it as I do something similiar EVERYDAY with betting and the mental game is almost the same. This kind of investing seems perfect for me and like I have said before I am looking for a new challenge, one that I can dive headfirst into. I 100% believe that if you can handle the HUGE flucuations that you can and will eventually win.

It's that or scoop (LOL).

GreenDoberman · May 30, 2007

Not at all surprised that you would start a thread about this as I thought you would be a person suited for it. I believe it would take a decent bankroll and a disciplined, grind it out approach. I am not that knowledgeable on the subject, but have read a few books on it.
Right now, the market is certainly not one I would want to be fully invested in though.

Iceman · May 30, 2007

I have talked about it in the past but the problem I have is I dont know what to invest in. I feel like if and when I try to pick a stock I have zero edge because the guys (other traders) know way way more than I do.

Here is the thing. I am reading a good book called The Way of the Turtle and it talks alot about the mentality of winning traders and it is exactly how I bet. I have tried to show a few others how I bet but that is the one thing no matter how hard they try that they can't grasp. They lose and they crumble, they don't understand the mental game. I am very good (thru years of practice) at handling the ups and downs. I never sweat it. I think this is my main quality, that and a systematic way of picking games.

If I could find that same type "winning" method with stocks I would go for it. That is why I am wondering if there is an approach out there like that. I am sure most would laugh thinking a winning sports bettor would question the stock market and if you can beat it.

SSI · May 30, 2007

Richard Dennis was the famous "Turtle Trader"....... i believe he held or used his dad's seat at the exchange at age 14.......

Turtle trading is almost the opposite of the day trader........

Day trading is highly nerve racking and pressure packed..... your basically trying to scalp........

You must take a LOT and i mean a LOT of small losses.........

If your seriously considering this,,,,,,,,,,, look at the indexes..... ive told you about trading the SP 500........... you will get way more bang for your bucks....

and a little hint,,,,,,,, learn to read the charts....... thats what its all about....

Let your winners ride and exit the losers early,,,,,,, if you can truly do this, you can make a fortune......

jh · May 30, 2007

SkinsRaj28 · May 30, 2007

j h said:

hahahahahahaha

BillyWaltersJr+ · May 30, 2007

I've been interested in this in the past, as well as the FOREX market I have heard very good things about. I do have 700mb+ of books about Forex but none on daytrading. I will see if I can locate any. Would be very interesting to delve further into the subject.

ivyconniver · May 30, 2007

It's all luck. The guys on wall street just carry around 4 leaf clovers in their breast pocket.

Seriously dude, if you aren't willing to put in enough homework to start a poop scooping business you'll get crushed in the markets. It's like learning a foreign language. You need at least a couple hours a day for each stock you're considering. Also, unlike offshore books, there are no bonuses and no avoiding the taxman.

BillyWaltersJr+ · May 30, 2007

Iceman, I have found 20+ good books that I just downloaded. I will share them with you if you want, just shoot me an email at:

xbmedia at gmail dot com

J2 · May 31, 2007

Just buy wizetrade

Computer shows green to buy and red to sell

Anybody seen this ridiculous infomercial

steaktartar · May 31, 2007

luck fire away

Dawoofdaddy · May 31, 2007

Iceman said:
I have a 3 hour gap throught the day (12-3) where I am exploring some new things. I have always thought about day trading as it seems right up my alley but not sure if you can grind out a $1,000 a month.

Anyone have any good books to read on the subject? How much is a reasonable monthly return on your investment? it seemsAlways seemed to me like alot of luck involved but with stock market usually going up like there are more winners than losers.

I think I have the right mentality for it as I do something similiar EVERYDAY with betting and the mental game is almost the same. This kind of investing seems perfect for me and like I have said before I am looking for a new challenge, one that I can dive headfirst into. I 100% believe that if you can handle the HUGE flucuations that you can and will eventually win.

It's that or scoop (LOL).

Would work best if you could be around starting at 10am. Alot of volatility in mornings. Only being around 12-3 is like trying to walk around town with one leg.

Making 1k a month depends what you are trading and how many chips you have to place at risk on the felt.

The best books to read are not books, they are experience. Find someone that is experienced and willing to show you a few of their methods. Watch the markets you would like to trade for a while.

Dont play with monopoly too long for that isnt what the real game is like. People respond differently when their own bankroll is on the felt.

Stop using the word "think" too often. The market doesnt care what you or anyone else thinks. Trading isnt at all like investing and you arent investing in the markets when trading. Markets go up and markets go down. If you are trading individual stocks, one bad trade can easily wipe everything.

As a trader, you should learn about shorting stocks as short term, you can make just as much selling something short as buying something.

There is some luck involved, but without the necessary mental skills, anyone trading over long periods of time will wipe out. Luck tends to favor trained observers.

I dont know you, but have read alot of your threads here, and personally I disagree about you having the right mentality to do this.

You seem to have opinions about alot of things...even things you admit to lack knowledge. Having too many opinions about the market is why most traders wipeout.

A good trader does what the market tells him to do and as little of everything else as possible. Learn to filter the noise, and the primary filtering begins via learning to flush your own thoughts and its not easy. My largest mistakes are made when I am telling market what its going to do instead of doing what market is telling me to do.

The market is the boss. Most of the stupid cliches youve heard such as "buy low, sell high" are rubbish and learn to ignore them.

Again, you arent investing, you are trading...two different animals.

Lastly, if you are trading properly, there shouldnt be any large fluctuations on downside and certainly not huge ones. Traders that win, but have as you mention huge fluctuations (downside) can definitely attribute most (if not all) of their "success" to luck.

Good luck if you decide to do this and hope this helped.

GreenDoberman · May 31, 2007

When Woofdaddy speaks, we listen. :103631605

Dawoofdaddy · May 31, 2007

Thanks GD, but I still make plenty of shit trades.

Iceman, another thing Id like to mention is that what works for some traders does not work for all.

That is a part of trading that is similar to sports gambling.

Some guys can grind out 5 cent scalps every night and be comfortable with it, while some guys would be too bored doing that and either lose money or not make enough for it to be worth their time.

Some guys only try for the big hits via options (I personally havent familiarized myself with options) but thats another animal from daytrading stocks.

I never read many books about the subject since I was fortunate to have opportunity to learn from a great trader via sitting at his desk watching screens and listening.

Not sure if this is a common trait with others, but most days Im trading, once I have a enough a gain to place a stop (something else you should learn to properly use), I either mute cnbc/bloomberg or altogether turn tv to another channel.

Myself, I personally try to filter as much "noise" as possible. A handful of variables are ok for me, but at a point, too many variables creates diminished or negative returns.

CookieNBabe · May 31, 2007

Sure, you can day trade and win, but Ive found it is easier and more profitable to swing trade though. After a while, you will see that you keep jumping off of stocks starting to run, and that is where the real cash is made. Allow a rallying stock to fully run. Dont be committed to cashing out every few hours. Daytraders also tend to get "shaken out" easier than swing traders, who are looking at a 5 or 15 day plan. In short, daytrading requires much more precision than most people can muster, day after day.

A good book to read, if you are new to trading, and stocks in general is n written by William J. O'Neil, titled How to Make Money in Stocks. He founded Investors Business Daily, which is another great tool every trader should read.

The markets have a cadence or somewhat predictable speed at which things happen. Realize that, and never get your will in the way.

Traders that make it are decisive individuals with no ego.

8ate · May 31, 2007

..

..Take what they give you..!!!

You have a winning method of scalping sports bets; why not just expand on that; gradually increasing wagers whilst br increases. Never underestimate the effect of taxes on eventual outcome..!!

jmho

gl

:money8:

Anti-liberal · May 31, 2007

There are two big edges that day-trading has over sports betting: unlimited volume (as opposed to $250 prop bet limits) and the stock exchange doesn't boot winners.

Like everything else though, if you think you have an edge, but you don't...you'll be punished. Severely.

Stick with what you know and what you have passion for. If you undertake something just for the money and you have no passion for it, you'll never be great at it, and you'll never be the best. You'll reach a point of diminishing returns without passion...it's a certainty.

pokerpills · May 31, 2007

For short term and daytraders, right now is the best time to be in the market. The US Markets have been going nuts the past month, reaching record highs every day. If you have the tolerance, trade options. You have much more leverage than stocks. Get someone to teach you about options trading. Once you learn about options, you'll never want to go back to trading stocks.

royalfan · May 31, 2007

Systems limit you in this just like sports. If you are systematically grinding, you are not optimizing your chance at profits.

JayC · May 31, 2007

Picking stocks is like throwing darts.

Options and derivatives are priced relative to the underlying security and offer theoretical edges throughout the day.

This is the only book you will ever need to read.

http://www.elitetrader.com/bo/index.cfm?action=view&B_ID=33&CatID=4

Take advantage of swings in implied volatilities, as well as the difference between the actual long term volatility of the underlying security and the implieds.

Is daytrading in the stock market all luck or does it take skill?

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