I would like to hear a little more about why Jenkins should be removed? Here are the stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jenkife01.shtml
In his Cy Young season of 1971, he lost 5 1-0 games.
People who should be out:
Bill Mazeroski
Phil Rizzuto
Red Schoendienst
In his Cy Young season of 1971, he lost 5 1-0 games.
People who should be out:
Bill Mazeroski
Phil Rizzuto
Red Schoendienst
Personally, I think Fergie Jenkins belongs in the HOF. The guy was a real horse for a lot of years and played on some terrible teams but still won a ton of games. During his era not many hitters liked facing him, I know that. Winning 20 or more games a year for six straight years for the late 60's and early 70's Cubs was no mean feat. Sure he gave up a lot of homers but who wouldn't he pitched 10 years in Wrigley and many of those homers were solo shots because Fergie had great control. For example in 1971 he only walked 37 batters in 325 inning with 263 strikeouts while going 24-14.
wil..
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I will limit my in and out to guys I actually saw play. I can't in good faith comment on Wilson, Maz, Gil Hodges, Rizzuto, Tinkers, Evers, Chance, etc., when I didn't see them play. The game was different back then.
In - Jack Morris, Rice, Rose, Joe Jackson, Lee Smith
Out - Biggio, Niekro, Sutton, Perry, Perez, - I wouldn't be heart broken if Winfield weren't in either. And, the veterans committee is a joke, 99% of the guys voted in by them likely shouldn't be there either.
Re Rose, he may be a douchebag, but he should be in AND he should forever be branded by having a statement on his plaque that he was suspended and bet on baseball. One should be able to walk through the HOF and get a sense of the entire history of baseball, good and bad, and without Rose that cannot be done. Put him in and brand him, same w/ Jackson and, if he gets in, Palmeiro.
In - Jack Morris, Rice, Rose, Joe Jackson, Lee Smith
Out - Biggio, Niekro, Sutton, Perry, Perez, - I wouldn't be heart broken if Winfield weren't in either. And, the veterans committee is a joke, 99% of the guys voted in by them likely shouldn't be there either.
Re Rose, he may be a douchebag, but he should be in AND he should forever be branded by having a statement on his plaque that he was suspended and bet on baseball. One should be able to walk through the HOF and get a sense of the entire history of baseball, good and bad, and without Rose that cannot be done. Put him in and brand him, same w/ Jackson and, if he gets in, Palmeiro.
I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but off the top of my head I'd boot
Phil Rizzuto, Red Schoendienst, Rabbit Maranville, Pee Wee Reese, Enos Slaughter, Gaylord Perry, and Don Sutton. Sutton doesn't belong IMO even if he hadn't been caught cheating, and he was.
Pete Rose (and Joe Jackson) don't get in, no way, no how. Whatever you personally feel about betting as a gambler, it cannot be ignored that it is the First Degree Murder crime of baseball-that, in and of itself, is enough to keep that scum Rose out. Now, factor in the fact that he lied like scum for FIFTEEN YEARS in denying that he bet at all. And, to those clueless people who say, "Well, Charlie Hustle never bet against his own team!" I say, whenver he didn't bet ON the Reds (as he did, in an unusually farsighted move, when Mario Soto pitched), he was indirectly betting AGAINST the Reds. And, on over/unders, which he also bet, say the Reds are winning 8-1 in the 9th, the opponents are batting with the bases loaded and two out, and the total is 9.5. You're telling me 'ole Petey wouldn't say, "Hey, this game is all but over and I'd normally take my tiring pitcher out, but, jeez, I only need
ONE MORE RUN to get my total, I'll just leave him in to see if we can squeeze out that lil' old bet winner." Those last few are just another few bricks in the wall, the guy is lower than snake shit. I don't give a shit that Jackson hit .375, he bet against his own and welched, that doesn't earn any credit, either. He was banned for LIFE, and he's been dead more than a half century. When Pete has been taking a dirt nap for that long, get back to me, then we'll talk...
Phil Rizzuto, Red Schoendienst, Rabbit Maranville, Pee Wee Reese, Enos Slaughter, Gaylord Perry, and Don Sutton. Sutton doesn't belong IMO even if he hadn't been caught cheating, and he was.
Pete Rose (and Joe Jackson) don't get in, no way, no how. Whatever you personally feel about betting as a gambler, it cannot be ignored that it is the First Degree Murder crime of baseball-that, in and of itself, is enough to keep that scum Rose out. Now, factor in the fact that he lied like scum for FIFTEEN YEARS in denying that he bet at all. And, to those clueless people who say, "Well, Charlie Hustle never bet against his own team!" I say, whenver he didn't bet ON the Reds (as he did, in an unusually farsighted move, when Mario Soto pitched), he was indirectly betting AGAINST the Reds. And, on over/unders, which he also bet, say the Reds are winning 8-1 in the 9th, the opponents are batting with the bases loaded and two out, and the total is 9.5. You're telling me 'ole Petey wouldn't say, "Hey, this game is all but over and I'd normally take my tiring pitcher out, but, jeez, I only need
ONE MORE RUN to get my total, I'll just leave him in to see if we can squeeze out that lil' old bet winner." Those last few are just another few bricks in the wall, the guy is lower than snake shit. I don't give a shit that Jackson hit .375, he bet against his own and welched, that doesn't earn any credit, either. He was banned for LIFE, and he's been dead more than a half century. When Pete has been taking a dirt nap for that long, get back to me, then we'll talk...
Are you one of those people who thinks John Smoltz should be in?
Because if so, then you thinking Fergie shouldn't be in seems a little nuts. He won 20 games 6 years in a row something Smoltz has done once.... Oh but Smoltz saved 150 games haha...
And won 20 games 7 times... Guy pitched over 300 innings 5 times that is insane. Struck out over 3000 hitters and had almost 300 wins. His Career ended poorly but he had a career 3.34 ERA
I knew I would catch some heat about Jenkins...he was a horse and he did lose alot of games also....remember when he came up and Gene Mauch said he didn't have a fastball....relooking at his stats courtesy of Fair Warning, I think his place in the Hall is warrented..didn't he also get arrested for drug possesion carrying drugs over the Canandian border when he played?? No matter, I believe that what you do inside the white lines is all that matters....
The difference is that I've seen these guys pitch and you have not...I base my opinons on what my eyes have told me...winning twenty games was alot easier then because of no DH's and pitching in over-friendly parks like the Polo Grounds, Forbes Field, and others....Damn EJ there are major baseball parks older than you, and the mounds were also higher..Bob Gibson put an end to that....:thumbsup:
