How to become an Oddsmaker?

bznofx19 · Jun 3, 2007

They never featured the 'oddsmaker' at any of the career days during my school years...so I have no idea in how to go about pursuing it as a career. I thought by starting here I could get a better idea. I believe Fishhead was one at some point?

First off, is there any specific education that would be required for such a profession? I am just finishing up my BA in Psychology with numerous Statistic courses along the way...I feel I have a greater understanding in how people think/react and can analyze data to a high degree.

Lastly, how would I approach someone about this? For example, do I need to go to Vegas and go straight up to the betting window and ask "Are you guys' hiring?", or is there a more formal way to go about it?

I dont expect too many people to know much about this, but this site always seems to have the most informed people and I thought it was worth a shot! Thanks in advance...

whalewager · Jun 3, 2007

get a job in a book...show how smart u are mr ba mr statistics...it will come

u have little shot...gl

SkinsRaj28 · Jun 3, 2007

Uncalled for. wilheim..

wilheim · Jun 3, 2007

Easy if you know sports well enough. You create power ratings for every team say in the NBA and also assign each team a home court value number. For a power ratings you can use any kind of numbers but say you start at 40 as the worst team in the league and 60 as the best (you don't have to have a team at either extreme) then use home court value like points for example a team llke Dallas has maybe a 4.5 point HCV (home court value) and the Boston Celtics had a 2 point HCV. Assuming they are playing at Dallas you take the power rating (PR) of Dallas which is say 52 and add it to it's HCV which gives you a total of 56.5 points then use your PR assigned to Boston which is say 41 and subtract the difference between the two figures and you have a line which in this case is 15.5 and can be used as your opening line for the game (probably to high by only a little in reality but this is an example).

The trick it to have PRs and HCVs that accurately reflect reality and need constant fine tuning throughout the season and can be effected mostly by injuries and suspensions. You also make adjustments by a teams performance on the floor as the season wears on. Works the same with football. Take Pittsburg at Baltimore with Pit having a PR of 50 and Baltimore one of 50 also your line is simply the HCV you have assigned to Baltimore which in the NFL would by in the vinicinity of 3 points making the Ravens a 3 point favorite. The sharper your ratings the sharper your numbers. You have to establish ratings to make totals also.

There is a lot more to it than my brief discription but I think as a stats guy you can get the general drift which is know how weak or strong any particular team is at any point in the season by using a numerical value.

wil..

SkinsRaj28 · Jun 3, 2007

SkinsRaj28 said:
Uncalled for. wilheim..

Ah come on, Wil...it was a joke. I'm sure they would've taken it that way too.

wilheim · Jun 3, 2007

Skins

Perhaps your right but Rx.com policy is to not allow posters to be obscenely insulted here in this forum or any other moderated forums for asking a credible question or making a credible point. Not that my post is anything special but which one do you think bznofx19 had in mind seeing when he took the trouble to start the thread?

All we ask is just the smallest amount of courtesy to each other.

Lets not hi-jack the thread please.

wil..

goodcall · Jun 3, 2007

Good luck bznofx

I keep meaning to ask you...what was the site I saw you post about where you can set your own lines? I think other people can "bet" on them as well...any ideas? tia

bznofx19 · Jun 3, 2007

goodcall said:
Good luck bznofx

I keep meaning to ask you...what was the site I saw you post about where you can set your own lines? I think other people can "bet" on them as well...any ideas? tia

nbx.com...although I just checked out Matchbook.com and it is a real-life version, but I dont like the fact that you can only set the ML on spreads and not the actual number...

goodcall · Jun 3, 2007

Thanks:thumbsup:

wilheim · Jun 3, 2007

Bz19

Here is a book you should buy if you are serious. You can get it at The Gamblers Book Shop in Las Vegas online delivered by UPS.

http://www.gamblersbook.com/weblink.cby/detail/680013.html

SPORTS BOOK MANAGEMENT
by Roxborough, M. & M. Rhoden
Order 680013...$35.00
Completely revised in '98, this is the most important book ever written for the person planning to enter legalized sports and race book management in Nevada. Covers accepting bets on all major sports plus boxing. Valuable for anyone researching the subject or seeking a source of understanding the variety of bets available, including parlay cards (with new revised additions), future wagers, linemaking theory, house rules, terminology, payoffs, percentages and prices, proposition bets and taxes on wagering. Includes a most-sought-after table: how to explain and understand the NFL Money Line to Pointspread Correlation. If you plan on beginning a career in a sports book, this is must- reading. 128 pages, paperbound. 1998.

Dr.Knowitall · Jun 3, 2007

Roxy had no clue how to book sports bet sports or make good odds on sports. His book is useless!

There are very few good oddsmakers because it is a talent that can't be learned. You either have it or you don't.

If you have it you need to do it everyday for years and study everything including the way other bookmakers book. You need to know why the players bet the way they do and not out guess them but agree with them or they will put you out of business.

Let all the bettors who bet for fun just bet and never move your odds off of them. Why would you?

There's alot more to oddsmaking than just pretending you know what the line should be, because nobody is that good. When you realize that you are ahead!

Dr.Knowitall · Jun 3, 2007

Just like Cleveland should have been a 3 point favorite in game 6. The oddsmakers WHO DON'T take bets tried to out guess the players and opened the game pick'em actually cost the bookmakers money and for no reason except they wanted to be smarter than the players.

Just 1 example of many millions!

TTinCO · Jun 3, 2007

I don't have a sliver of experience in this, but the first question that comes to mind was whether you were booking to square or sharp action.

Are you trying to balance the action for a bunch of local dummies who don't know what the internet is, or are you talking about an online well established book?

For that matter, do you really have to open any numbers of your own?

Maniac · Jun 3, 2007

I agree with Dr to some extent - it is almost more important to know your customers better than you know your line.

If you have a decent understanding of what your customers are more likely to do and how they will be, then you can use that to your advantage in so many ways.

I am not saying to fade the mugs and follow the sharps, but if you know that the majority of your punters will back the Overs almost blindly, then you can adjust your lines slightly (even just half a point) to compensate for this.

You will likely still end up with decisions on the Over anyway, and it might not make much difference to your results in a single game, but over time these extra half points will start turning losses to pushes, and pushes to wins.

Of course this is a very simplistic way of describing one possible situation that you can use to your advantage - and we all know that nothing is ever really as simple as that - but if you know your punters habits well, then I believe that can make the difference between being a good oddsmaker and a great oddsmaker...

wilheim · Jun 3, 2007

Bz19

You can listen to someone who calls himself Dr. Know it All or you can spend $50 to see if you can figure out how to start out learning how to become an oddsmaker. Personally it makes no differance to me, I wish you luck either way.

I knew automatically when I made the post above that someone would make a post like the one Dr. know it all did but in all hosesty I have had a copy of the book since it was originally published, you can take my word for or not but there is a lot of information contained in book that is hard to find in print anywhere. The book, like any book about any trade or profession is not going to make you an expert by itself but it is a start just like a book about basic plumbing would help someone who wants to enter that field.

Dr. Know it all is right about one thing oddsmaking is not easy and most who try never really get any good at it, you need brains and discipline to learn the trade but most of all you have to be lucky enough to learn from a real mentor who has years of experience doing battle everyday with sharp and not so sharp bettors. Talent is not the right word though it is really intelligence that is required to figure out where a game should be based on your particular financial situation in relation to that game.

You have to know how to book to what is known in the game as "faces", which translated into layman's terms means moving numbers off sharp action not square action.

The subject can be discussed at length but to really learn anything you have got to get yourself in a real store run by a pro and learn from him. Writing tickets at a window on the strip is scratching the surface but learning what is in Roxy's book goes a long way past that and prepares you to at least have a shot at someday making decisions on where a game should be.

BOL. wil.

Dr.Knowitall · Jun 3, 2007

wilheim said:
You can listen to someone who calls himself Mr. Know it All or you can spend $50 to see if you can figure out how to start out learning how to become an oddsmaker. Personally it makes no differance to me, I wish you luck either way.

I knew automatically when I made the post above that someone would make a post like the one Mr. know it all did but in all hosesty I have had a copy of the book since it was originally published, you can take my word for or not but there is a lot of information contained in book that is hard to find in print anywhere. The book, like any book about any trade or profession is not going to make you an expert by itself but it is a start just like a book about basic plumbing would help someone who wants to enter that field.

Mr. Know it all is right about one thing oddsmaking is not easy and most who try never really get any good at it, you need brains and discipline to learn the trade but most of all you have to be lucky enough to learn from a real mentor who has years of experience doing battle everyday with sharp and not so sharp bettors. Talent is not the right word though it is really intelligence that is required to figure out where a game should be based on your particular financial situation in relation to that game.

You have to know how to book to what is known in the game as "faces", which translated into layman's terms means moving numbers off sharp action not square action.

The subject can be discussed at length but to really learn anything you have got to get yourself in a real store run by a pro and learn from him. Writing tickets at a window on the strip is scratching the surface but learning what is in Roxy's book goes a long way past that and prepares you to at least have a shot at someday making decisions on where a game should be.

BOL. wil.

Alot of the stuff in Roxys book is wrong!

Believe someone who actaully booked bets and made his own books odds or believe a salesman who gave out really bad odds for years and then blamed it on the wiseguys. "Got to get rid of them" he cried to the gaming board. They are cheating because they use telephones and beepers.

And then he wrote a book about something he never did!

Yea that's who I would believe.

Dr.Knowitall · Jun 3, 2007

Wilheim,

Did you know that Roxy used to copy the early New York line and give it out as his own? And then he had a runner call him from the stardust with changes so when his other customers would open up he would then give them HIS updated line?

He scammed his way into the oddsmakers role through his relationship with a sportsbook manager. He made terrible odds and cost sport books alot of money in the 80's and 90's. He couldn't make a line if his life depended on it.

Now tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. I love that. Every big bettor and illegal bookmaker knew what Roxy was all about! Why don't you?

wilheim · Jun 3, 2007

This thread is not about Roxy, the book does contain information that everyone who wants to get into the legal side of bookmaking needs to know. This question below prompted me to recommend the book which most likely you have never even tried to read. The difference between myself and guys like you is I don't hate people because they made money. When Roxy appeared on the scene there was a huge void that neded to be filled in the industry that he was smart enough to fill for a long time. Call him what you want but he is not dumb.

I recommended the book based on this statement by the thread starter.

First off, is there any specific education that would be required for such a profession? I am just finishing up my BA in Psychology with numerous Statistic courses along the way...I feel I have a greater understanding in how people think/react and can analyze data to a high degree.

This book goes into that type of information, for $35 anyone thinking of trying to learn to become a oddsmaker should have the book no matter what people think of the writer personally. The information on the money line to pointspread correlation alone is worth the price. I would also recommend he buys the late Bob McCune's "Education of a Sports Bettor", which while written for players goes a long way on educating oddsmakers.

I go back to the days of Bob Martin and wish I could put all I learned from him in a post but it doesn't work that way, you have to learn by experience and if you have zero then a book like Roxy's is as good a place as any to begin your education. A newbie right out of college aspiring to become an oddsmaker has to start somewhere in order to learn the very basics and hanging around the Mirage all day acting like you have a clue ain't going to make it happen.

There is also some misconception in this thread which is defining the differance between a bookmaker and an oddsmaker - two very different procedures that require two very different educations. A subject for another day.

wil.

teazeman · Jun 3, 2007

when will you be writing your book Wil?

Dr.Knowitall · Jun 4, 2007

I disagree.

I don't believe you can be a good oddsmaker if you don't take bets. I don't see how they can be seperated. I do know what I'm talking about!

Is that how you respond to people by telling them they hate them? Why would I hate Roxy? I know who his is and what he has done. He is nothing but a salesman! And a good one.

You don't need to read Roxys book to make odds or book. No bookmaker I know would read this book and I know them all! Do you?