Why would ANYONE play blackjack at tables that dont use a shoe?

PO69 · Jun 18, 2007

Someone else made a thread about 6/5 blackjack, so I wondering this question. Why ON EARTH would anyone play blackjack when the house is not using a shoe??

First of all, if you are not card counting either way, then you might as well not even play. But with a shuffling machine, then you CANNOT count cards at all!! Yet I still see some people betting serious money at the machine tables. It isnt that big of a %, but a few. Usually the only players playing out of a shoe are people not betting much money. Does anyone here ever play at those tables??

I said in the other thread, that I would play at 6/5 single deck blackjack ALL DAY long over playing at a shuffling machine. Usually, you get about 3 or 4 hands out of each deck. Based on the opening 2 hands, you can remember cards that were seen and adjust your starting bets accordingly.

Also, you may NOT choose to take a hit on 14-16 based on what you have seen earlier as well.

Does anyone play at auto shuffle tables?

gynecologist · Jun 18, 2007

$5 Blackjack tables are so crowded.. I think some people sit whereever they can.

Doug · Jun 18, 2007

I kind of like single and double decks ( 3-2) because of card memory, so that's not a shoe.

Not hitting 14 ( especially) and 15 against a 7 or better is questionable, the count has to be very negative to stand on 14, IMO.

Do you use a presumed count ( guess what other players are holding, if you can't see their cards, assuming they play basic, and therefore must have certain cards) ?

Doug · Jun 18, 2007

gynecologist said:
$5 Blackjack tables are so crowded.. I think some people sit whereever they can.

good reason to play downtown, or play at off-peak times.

PO69 · Jun 18, 2007

Well I try and sit at third base obviously. And usually I play with a friend who will hold his cards REAL LOOSE. And yes it helps having a player at first that you know as well who will throw his busted face up a few times like he doesnt know any better. Also, you get alot of table chatter in those games as well.

I havent seen to many casinos pay 3/2 for single deck blackjack. Is that still happening on a regular basis?

Doug · Jun 18, 2007

last year:

4Queens
Cortez
Western

The dealer should spread any busted hand.

I often hold my cards face up so others can see them, and to encourage them to do the same, it's not poker.

MrJ · Jun 18, 2007

Machines = higher turnover = larger loss.

I can't actually place -ev bets anyway. Not even a bet on my own team.

austintx05 · Jun 18, 2007

dunno

ganchrow · Jun 18, 2007

playersonly69 said:
Someone else made a thread about 6/5 blackjack, so I wondering this question. Why ON EARTH would anyone play blackjack when the house is not using a shoe??

I said in the other thread, that I would play at 6/5 single deck blackjack ALL DAY long over playing at a shuffling machine. Usually, you get about 3 or 4 hands out of each deck. Based on the opening 2 hands, you can remember cards that were seen and adjust your starting bets accordingly.

Does anyone play at auto shuffle tables?

Unless you're counting cards, you'd be slightly better off playing at a table with a continuous shuffle machine than you would a cut card game at a table with the same number of decks.

CSMs actually lower average house edge per hand for a bettor playing basic strategy.

See http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix10.html.

PO69 · Jun 18, 2007

Well if you are not counting cards, then you have no business playing blackjack

5starbomb · Jun 18, 2007

playersonly69 said:
Well if you are not counting cards, then you have no business playing blackjack

thats not true... if you play basic strategy your still at about 49% chance of winning. I would much rather play blackjack than slots. And for the occassional blackjack player counting cards takes too much time to learn. And even counting cards doesnt guarantee you will win. I think the biggest thing is you do good on your splits and double downs. That is where the money is made and if you are winning those you should win some money, but if you get fucked on those splits and double downs then it could be a long night

MrJ · Jun 18, 2007

CSMs actually lower average house edge per hand for a bettor playing basic strategy.

It doesn't make up for the higher turnover though.

Brooklynbomber · Jun 18, 2007

I think for the 99.9% of the people who do not count...playing single deck is by far the best choice, 6/5 notwithstanding. Basic strategy is a must.

used to play from the shoe before I could half assed count and would lose about 5% of the time. Had a sharp pit boss tell me years ago to never play the shoe - always singledeck and "you'll win" At single deck with BS even without counting, I can usually eek out a profit, even though the house has a 1% or 2% advantage. Of course anything can happen in only couple hours of play

PO69 · Jun 18, 2007

ganchrow said:
Unless you're counting cards, you'd be slightly better off playing at a table with a continuous shuffle machine than you would a cut card game at a table with the same number of decks.

CSMs actually lower average house edge per hand for a bettor playing basic strategy.

See http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix10.html.

This data almost has to be bullshit. This guy probably works for a casino or something. How ON EARTH could he say that naturally more high cards come out more often in CSM's???? I have seen this guys view on internet casinos and he must be on the take in those as well

MrJ · Jun 18, 2007

5 star bomb said:
thats not true... if you play basic strategy your still at about 49% chance of winning. I would much rather play blackjack than slots. And for the occassional blackjack player counting cards takes too much time to learn. And even counting cards doesnt guarantee you will win. I think the biggest thing is you do good on your splits and double downs. That is where the money is made and if you are winning those you should win some money, but if you get fucked on those splits and double downs then it could be a long night

I believe the point is you're not betting with an advantage so you shouldn't be betting at all. If you're a casual bettor what does it really matter anyway? Half an hour of low limit casino gambling on table games at reasonably busy periods - you'll spend more on a drink.

tkf18ny · Jun 18, 2007

he is right about 6/5 being worse than csm
if you arent counting csm dont matter (you arent getting much of an advantage by slightly adjusting your bets based on whats come out already- in fact many people do this so poorly they end up losing more money)
where as 6/5

you can find games in vegas where if you play perfect BS the house edge is .19%
with 6/5 the edge is 1.45%
SO IN AN HOUR YOUR LOSING 7 TIMES MORE MONEY PLAYING 6/5

sorry your minor adjustments based on what you think the count is being nullified is still better than losing 7 times more money

Mr.Smith · Jun 18, 2007

good lord

squeeze3 · Jun 18, 2007

playersonly69 said:
Well if you are not counting cards, then you have no business playing blackjack

Hey Players, do you think any of the people you see at the casino might be there just to have fun??? If you play your cards rights (basic strategy) blackjack is the best game in the house. 99.9% in a casino are there to have a good time, and very, very few are there to turn a profit (not counting poker).

I've counted before and it is W-O-R-K. It's very taxing on the brain if you are using a decent system, and a few hours at the table will leave you exhausted. So don't get too hung up on what people are playing and for how much, as practically everyone is there for entertainment purposes.

GreenDoberman · Jun 18, 2007

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ronaldn · Jun 18, 2007

tkf18ny said:
he is right about 6/5 being worse than csm
if you arent counting csm dont matter (you arent getting much of an advantage by slightly adjusting your bets based on whats come out already- in fact many people do this so poorly they end up losing more money)
where as 6/5

you can find games in vegas where if you play perfect BS the house edge is .19%
with 6/5 the edge is 1.45%
SO IN AN HOUR YOUR LOSING 7 TIMES MORE MONEY PLAYING 6/5

sorry your minor adjustments based on what you think the count is being nullified is still better than losing 7 times more money

Your advice is right on. Good post!!! Good to see a post by someone who knows the math!!!!