For those of you advocating universal health care - an anecdote

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hangin' about
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I really really need to rant....

The entirely of Ontario's long-term eldercare (nursing homes) are under the control of the government. In their haste to make health care fully 'accessible' to everyone, they have placed price-caps (and other heavy regulatory requirements) on all nursing home facilities, including those privately owned. In short, you pay $1500/month for a ward bed, $2000 for semi-private, or $2500 for private, no matter what nursing home you're in. With price-caps, there is little incentive to improve your home's offerings, or to enter the market.

I live in a city that currently has a nursing home-placement waiting list of 700 people. Of those, nearly 200 are in hospital. The latter group is given priority.

My grandmother is now one of those people.

She's in a hospital waiting for a bed. Back in March, we applied to the community-based waiting list for a semi-private or private room at three different homes. We were told at the time to expect the wait to be a year. (It would have been THREE if we'd required a ward bed.)

Now that she is being transferred from hospital, her wait has been cut to roughly 30 days.

But here's the kicker.

While she is on the wait list for three nursing homes, there is no guarantee that she will be placed in any one of them. In fact, due to the popularity of the homes we chose, it's likely a bed won't open up soon enough. The rule is that she must take the first available bed that opens in the city. If it's on her list, great; if not, oh well.

We wanted a home with an attached retirement home for my grandfather. In two weeks, they will have been married 66 years. We wanted a home that didn't have an accompanying advanced-dementia ward. We wanted a home that was near where she's always lived, so she feels more comfortable. Etc.

Instead, we're going to get whatever they give us.

And if we refuse the bed and decide to wait for a bed in one of her chosen homes? They'll charge us three hundred dollars a day.

(Worse: a girlfriend of mine's grandparents live in Northern Ontario where it is significantly less populated. Since nursing home placement is based on region, her grandfather, who lives in North Bay, ended up in Bracebridge, two and a half hours away. Her grandmother can't drive anymore. Imagine.)

This universal system is supposed to be accessible for all of us. How is it, then, that the precise and exact opposite is true?

Seven hundred people on a waiting list in one city - and a boomer generation only a few years away - equals huge demand. Yet there is absolutely no plan to build a single home in this city in the next five years. Were I to open a 700-bed facility tomorrow - properly staffed and organised - completely solving the city's immediate crisis, they would shut me down and throw me in jail.

The state of eldercare in Ontario, and the arrogance that drives our politicians to retain their monopoly in spite of plain-as-day reality, is downright immoral. I hope every last one of those motherfuckers rots in hell for what they are doing to my family.
 
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Those prices are rediculous just like everything else in Heathcare.Big rip off..Example:In the hospital It's something like 8 bucks for a small box of kleenexes
 

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yeah here in america, guys i just saw sicko last night and it is ridiculous. our senate was bought out by drug companies and insurance companies. now our healthcare system is failing people in need. there r 36 countries ahead of us in statistics when it comes to health care. 3 first responders from 9/11 either couldn't afford there medical needs or were denied coverage by their ins. co. they were taken to cuba and received all essential care and all r doing much because of it. one drug that cost 120 dollars here cost 5 cents there. bush's medicare reform law passed in 03 allows drug co. to charge what ever they want. ridiculous.
 

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I was just reading today that Americans who live in Canada prefer the American health care system.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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X, I'm sorry about your family's fight but I'm happy to see a (dare I say) conservative side to you.

In CT, nursing homes are $ 9,000 per month. Sick really. But almost everybody can get into one (we call it Title 19).

Government programs are not the answer, they are 93% inefficient.

Social Security? the biggest pyramid scheme in the history of mankind.

Welfare? evolved into a lifestyle & creates poverty

Healthcare? see the fucking VA hospitals

Education? public education not heading in the right direction, and it's not because of money.

Thanks for a dose of reality from up north.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
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yeah here in america, guys i just saw sicko last night and it is ridiculous. our senate was bought out by drug companies and insurance companies. now our healthcare system is failing people in need. there r 36 countries ahead of us in statistics when it comes to health care. 3 first responders from 9/11 either couldn't afford there medical needs or were denied coverage by their ins. co. they were taken to cuba and received all essential care and all r doing much because of it. one drug that cost 120 dollars here cost 5 cents there. bush's medicare reform law passed in 03 allows drug co. to charge what ever they want. ridiculous.


and how does all this reconcile with longer / healthier lives?

if we take away "investment incentives", you won't have to worry about the cost of the next miracle drug, it won't exist. X experienced this reality first hand.
 

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Sorry to hear the unfortunate situation XP. I knew Canada's system sucked, but I never knew it was that bad on the nursing home issue.

A good buddy of mine is a GP in Mississauga and he's told me some horror stories, but this one takes the cake.
 

bushman
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I don't know of anywhere where long term care of the elderly is good.

Labour intensive, and semi-medical = $$$$$$$s

People used to look after elderly relatives until they were almost gone but the change in the structure of the family unit [CAPITALISM] has unleashed a labour cost which was borne by the immediate family during previous generations.

It could just be that the elderly weren't so damned inconvenient to previous generations.
 

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I don't know of anywhere where long term care of the elderly is good.

Labour intensive, and semi-medical = $$$$$$$s

People used to look after elderly relatives until they were almost gone but the change in the structure of the family unit [ATHEIST LIBERALISM] has unleashed a labour cost which was previously borne by the immediate family.

Fixed Your Post
 

hangin' about
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People used to look after elderly relatives until they were almost gone but the change in the structure of the family unit [CAPITALISM] has unleashed a labour cost which was borne by the immediate family during previous generations.

It could just be that the elderly weren't so damned inconvenient to previous generations.

You know I've always liked you, but these words are an insult.

My grandmother had a bunch of strokes last May, and I've been taking care of her every day since then. In hospital, rehab, and then in September I moved into her home so that we could get her out of this godforsaken system.

She's been in the hospital for the past month and yesterday her doctors gave us the low-down. Her care is such that I don't have the technical skills to care for her anymore, without attending a year or two of nursing school.

My grandmother is not going into a nursing home because her family won't take care of her. She's going there because we can't.
 
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hangin' about
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Sorry to hear the unfortunate situation XP. I knew Canada's system sucked, but I never knew it was that bad on the nursing home issue.

A good buddy of mine is a GP in Mississauga and he's told me some horror stories, but this one takes the cake.

I wish this were just another horror story. Unfortunately, it's the entirety of the system of eldercare. Every senior looking to enter a nursing home faces the same crap as my grandmother. There's nothing exceptional about our case.

If you are in a hospital waiting for a bed, you have no choices.

If you are at home waiting for a bed, you will wait from one to three years, making realistic future planning all but impossible.

Universal, my ass.
 

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willie, statistics show that in france, cuba and canada the life expectancy is longer than that in the us. that is how it reconciles.
 

Triple digit silver kook
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Those prices are rediculous just like everything else in Heathcare.Big rip off..Example:In the hospital It's something like 8 bucks for a small box of kleenexes

If you think those prices are ridiculous, you would be shocked to know how much higher nursing home costs are here in America.
 

hangin' about
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willie, statistics show that in france, cuba and canada the life expectancy is longer than that in the us. that is how it reconciles.

I want you to imagine buying a new home. You want to live in a specific neighbourhood, three bedrooms, a nice yard, and where the neighbours are nice.

You find a few homes that meet your criteria and so you put in bids.

Then your Governor comes along and cancels your bids and forces you to buy another home. One on the other side of town, next to a train track, with only two bedrooms. Oh, and it's a condo, not a house, and your neighbours use flags for curtains.

But you have to buy it, and you have to live there. And if you don't, the Governor will fine you.

Sound okay to you?
 

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no xpanda, that sounds awful. now a dilemma for you. your mother doesn't have health coverage. she is robbed and beaten, she is taken to the hospital. they stitch up her sever cut, do nothing about her broken collar bone and ribs. they put her in a cab and send her off to the streets.

sound okay to you?
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
Handicapper
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willie, statistics show that in france, cuba and canada the life expectancy is longer than that in the us. that is how it reconciles.


So this proves our life expectancies are actually decreasing? geez

There are other factors that impact life expectancies y'know.

Weight? we are fat
Drugs?
Work?
Lifestyles? all those freedoms we can't enjoy anymore :missingte

I don't think people from all over the world travel to Havana for medical purposes.
 

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but they can. and the factors we r failing in statistically are stroke, lung disease, cancer and other medical problems that don't seem to be ravaging other healthcare systems.
 

hangin' about
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no xpanda, that sounds awful. now a dilemma for you. your mother doesn't have health coverage. she is robbed and beaten, she is taken to the hospital. they stitch up her sever cut, do nothing about her broken collar bone and ribs. they put her in a cab and send her off to the streets.

sound okay to you?

Yes, it does.

(My mother would have health insurance. That's the sort of responsible, autonomous person she is.)

How about this: you pay for health insurance, to the tune of roughly $8k per year. But for over seven years, you can't get a family doctor because there aren't any. Yet you keep paying for health care. Because if you don't, they'll throw you in jail.

At least in your scenario you get what you pay for. Don't buy insurance, don't get coverage. In my supposedly-utopian scenario, I buy (suffer extortion, really) insurance, and can't get a doctor.
 

hangin' about
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go to the hospital. i believe they also take care of people.

For a physical? What about a pap? Mammogram? Anything non-emergent?

I could go to the walk-in clinic and wait four to six hours (if I'm lucky, and get there before 11am so I don't end up waiting all day only to be sent home) where I will have zero choice about what doctor deals with me. Only they can't help any of the above anyway, so they'll send me to a "specialist" for those things. I can usually anticipate waiting 2-5 months for that appointment.

And, are you serious? It's your contention that it's okay that I pay about $8k a year to a health care system that can't meet the basic requirement of providing me a family doctor? At least health insurance is an option in your country. I HAVE to pay for it. No matter what I think of it.
 

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