Why is it MLB is the only major sport being shredded to pieces by steroids?

Journeyman · Jun 28, 2007

No pun intented...baseball is being shredded to pieces, while the NFL , NBA and probably even the NHL have the same problems at the same or above percentages.

Some names to think about-

Barry Sanders?
Jamal Lewis?
Ray Lewis?
Greg Lloyd?

Michael Jordan?
Dennis Rodman?
Karl Malone?
Vince Carter?

It is what it is..and we should just accept it...where there's testing there will always be masking agents, a cat and mouse game with millions at stake , people will still play the game, nothing to lose but their lives, and that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone.

fhmesq44 · Jun 28, 2007

lot of reasons:

- baseball records are known and more hallowed than hoops or football.
- HUGE, noticeable change in the size of baseball players
- baseball largely ignored the issue of steroids for years while NHL and NFL have tested for it much longer.
- counter intuitive to think that basketball players need/use juice (however, the guys have gotten much bigger generally)
- generally speaking, Ray Lewis looks no different than he did at Miami and the same holds true for most guys (save David Boston). Thus, we intuitively think there has been no change in their physical makeup, therefore, no steroid use. You don't just look at Junior Seau and say "Damn, WTF happened to him? When did he get so big? He must be juicing" b/c he has looked the same since he was at USC. Visually there is a noticeable difference in particular players in baseball and there isn't in football.
- other than Boston and Merriman, who else has tested positive?

docmercer · Jun 28, 2007

Journeyman said:
NFL , NBA and probably even the NHL have the same problems at the same or above percentages.
.

What do you base this claim on? I don't recall Jordan, Sanders, Malone et al testing positive. Are baseball players just dumber? In one screening in 2005 of minor league players, 38 of them popped positive for just one specific drug being tested for. I haven't seen anything like this in NFL euro, the CBA or the minor leagues in NHL. Maybe I missed it.

I'd like to see the evidence that these sports have the same or above percentages lke you claim.

Burden of proof is more than just listing the names of top players.

kingbill · Jun 28, 2007

The NFL has an obvious problem, I mean the runner up for the defensive player of the year award missed 4 games because he was caught juicing but it was pretty small story. I think it has a lot to do with baseball portraying itself as the pure game...Holier than thou type garbage. Just like when a celebrity screws up people hammer them far worse than an average joe.

uva3021 · Jun 28, 2007

there was a steroid/hgh distribution investigation with the carolina panthers during there super bowl run

nobody said a thing

shawn merriman got suspended for steroids - pro bowl, beloved player

Journeyman · Jun 28, 2007

ktvvegas said:
What do you base this claim on? I don't recall Jordan, Sanders, Malone et al testing positive. Are baseball players just dumber? In one screening in 2005 of minor league players, 38 of them popped positive for just one specific drug being tested for. I haven't seen anything like this in NFL euro, the CBA or the minor leagues in NHL. Maybe I missed it.

I'd like to see the evidence that these sports have the same or above percentages lke you claim.

Burden of proof is more than just listing the names of top players.

You think the NFL players use steroids at a lower percentage than MLB players?

No those players never tested positive but for the most part there were no tests either....and look at NBA players now compared to 20 years ago...there's no difference , in each sport they ALL fill out their uniform much differently than they did in 1987.

Timetopay · Jun 28, 2007

Football is about contact Baseball is about records only thin I can see.

You bring up Jordan though. Ugh. So I will have to question Eddie Murray:thumbsup:

tatehill2000 · Jun 28, 2007

:thumbsup: THE ANSWER IS THIS JOURNEY,,,,,,,,,

in the 1950s Baseball wanted to protect the "sanctity" of the game. They wanted NO COMPETITION!!!!!!!!!(there can bo NO OTHER baseball ORGS)!!

so they SIGNED away thier RIGHTS to a private organization in order to form a LEGAL monopoly,,,, in this Scenario,,, the government controls and has thefinal say in all issuess,,,

HOOPS is riddled with Roids,,, FOOTS has a 80% +++ roid usage situation,,,

its a fact,,thats just the way it is,, But that is the ANSWER to your Q Journey,,,

tater

WCBias · Jun 28, 2007

Always crack up at the ones that actually believe football players have never or don't take steroids when it is probably more prevalant than any other sport. The NFL has a testing policy, they must be innocent, right?

Steroid use among football players starts in high school, is wide spread at the college level, and is either very well masked or swept under the rug at the pro level. Open your eyes. Refrigerator Perry was a beast 20 years ago, today he is an average sized lineman.

FHM is right, it's the "hallowed" records in baseball. But in terms of media coverage, this is a convenient excuse at best. The NFL has turned a blind eye to steroid abuse for years...they do not want their employees to be busted and exposed, because they do not want the persecution baseball has endured.

Personally I'm disgusted with the media dragging baseball through the mud when they know full well what goes on behind the closed doors of NFL locker rooms....and worse, college football locker rooms. Very few have stood up and pointed a finger at NFL, but dozens of journalists have stood on a soap box and preached against the evil MLB.

A punter got busted with a prescription for steriods...I don't recall him even getting a slap on the wrist. I believe all four played in the superbowl. The doctor, on the other hand, I think was arrested or lost his license. Crazyness.

Severall ex-football players have come out and admitted using steriods, and claimed others did to. Absolutely no investigation whatsoever. Because the NFL has a testing policy....so they are innocent.

Journeyman · Jun 28, 2007

WC Bias said:
Always crack up at the ones that actually believe football players have never or don't take steroids when it is probably more prevalant than any other sport. The NFL has a testing policy, they must be innocent, right?

Steroid use among football players starts in high school, is wide spread at the college level, and is either very well masked or swept under the rug at the pro level. Open your eyes. Refrigerator Perry was a beast 20 years ago, today he is an average sized lineman.

FHM is right, it's the "hallowed" records in baseball. But in terms of media coverage, this is a convenient excuse at best. The NFL has turned a blind eye to steroid abuse for years...they do not want their employees to be busted and exposed, because they do not want the persecution baseball has endured.

Personally I'm disgusted with the media dragging baseball through the mud when they know full well what goes on behind the closed doors of NFL locker rooms....and worse, college football locker rooms. Very few have stood up and pointed a finger at NFL, but dozens of journalists have stood on a soap box and preached against the evil MLB.

A punter got busted with a prescription for steriods...I don't recall him even getting a slap on the wrist. I believe all four played in the superbowl. The doctor, on the other hand, I think was arrested or lost his license. Crazyness.

Severall ex-football players have come out and admitted using steriods, and claimed others did to. Absolutely no investigation whatsoever. Because the NFL has a testing policy....so they are innocent.

I know it is those records...and that was my point in a round about way....funny how no one is questioning whther or not Jamal Lewis was juiced in his 2000 yard season , where he also ran for close to 300 against the Bengals. It all comes down to those records being broken.

no one cares if an NBA player is on the juice...

Jordan Pippen Rodman? juice juice juice? So what?:howdy:

RobFunk · Jun 28, 2007

America's past time, and records.

What kind of records are OL and DL chasing? The records in the NBA, do you care like you do with baseball?!

Records outside of baseball just dont hold the same mystique. Not even close.

Nobody cared about roids until long time records in the MLB started to get challenged.

fhmesq44 · Jun 28, 2007

Someone else mentioned it but it also has to do with the way baseball has acted. As I said, they largely turned a blind eye to it and, beyond that, Orza and Fehr have taken completely despicable positions that it is a right to privacy issue effectively protecting the players ability to take steroids for years. They have almost made it a right and condemned anyone for trying to take away this right.

Baseball's first steroid testing policy was a complete sham and baseball was rightly mocked for it.

It really isn't any different than the way Giambi and Bonds are treated in the press. Consider Giambi to be football and Bonds to be baseball. Giambi has effectively acknowledged it and everyone has moved on, Bonds continues to be an intransigent ass and gets villified for it. Baseball plays the head in the sand idiot when in reality it is their arrogance and own doing. They refuse to acknowledge the problem they not only created by protected and, frankly, promoted.

I don't think fewer guys use in the NFL (I believe about the same number use, which is a massive percentage in both sports). However, I have no answer as to why fewer guys get busted. I don't know whether they keep it secret better (doesn't seem to be the case as guys are suspended 4 games for their first failure) or they are just better at masking or if they have more notice of the tests. Either way, NFL isn't nearly as arrogant as baseball and that is the main reason IMO.

WCBias · Jun 28, 2007

fhmesq44 said:
Someone else mentioned it but it also has to do with the way baseball has acted. As I said, they largely turned a blind eye to it and, beyond that, Orza and Fehr have taken completely despicable positions that it is a right to privacy issue effectively protecting the players ability to take steroids for years. They have almost made it a right and condemned anyone for trying to take away this right.

Baseball's first steroid testing policy was a complete sham and baseball was rightly mocked for it.

It really isn't any different than the way Giambi and Bonds are treated in the press. Consider Giambi to be football and Bonds to be baseball. Giambi has effectively acknowledged it and everyone has moved on, Bonds continues to be an intransigent ass and gets villified for it. Baseball plays the head in the sand idiot when in reality it is their arrogance and own doing. They refuse to acknowledge the problem they not only created by protected and, frankly, promoted.

I don't think fewer guys use in the NFL (I believe about the same number use, which is a massive percentage in both sports). However, I have no answer as to why fewer guys get busted. I don't know whether they keep it secret better (doesn't seem to be the case as guys are suspended 4 games for their first failure) or they are just better at masking or if they have more notice of the tests. Either way, NFL isn't nearly as arrogant as baseball and that is the main reason IMO.

What did the people who run baseball do that was any different than what the NFL did? Again, the NFL has a steriod testing policy. That right there is the crux of the argument. They have been given a free pass because they LIE about test results and cover up for their superstars. If anything, the media should be POUNDING on the NFL for their indiscretions.

I don't know how you can say the NFL is not as arrogant as MLB. They are far more arrogant about it, pimping their testing policy and acting as if there is no steriod abuse in the NFL.

This is about ridding steroids in sports, not about saving "hallowed" records. When the media (or better yet, congress) really wants to make an impact and do something about steriod abuse, they will focus on the NFL and college football, the two most popular sports in america.

Until then, steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs will continue to play a major role in all sports.

WCBias · Jun 28, 2007

Journey...in addition to most NFL players, add to the list of people I strongly suspect of taking performance enhancing drugs.....

Any boxer from the past 30 years

Any MMA athlete in the past 20 years (Royce Gracie of all people just tested positive)

All track and field athletes

Lance Armstrong

and here is a kicker......

Tiger Woods

But Mark McGwire is a jerk because even though he's never tested positive, he broke a baseball record.

fhmesq44 · Jun 28, 2007

WC,

First, I am not saying the NFL is clean or doesn't get a free pass. J_Man asked why and I am giving my opinion on it. I may be wrong, I may be correct, I have no idea.

The NFL started testing for steroids in 1987, 15 years before baseball's first joke of a testing program. Admittedly in relation to when steroids became a problem in the sport, it is probably about the same time (i.e., 10 years too late). However, NFL is probably viewed as more pro-active than baseball who was reactive.

Additionally, Fehr ALWAYS took the position that he would never allow testing and held that position until the players themselves wanted testing. And, again, it was the players and not Fehr that wanted the stronger testing when they were villified for their stupid 8 strikes and you are suspended for a week policy. Baseball effectively protected players and permitted them to use steroids.

Unless you know something we don't, your contention that the NFL lies and hides positive results is pure speculation. If that is the case and someone ever finds out, you can bet your ass they will be destroyed by anyone and everyone. As it stands now, they have the best defensive player in football for steroids. If they were hiding testing results it would seem they would hide Merriman's. Thus, people implicitly trust the NFL's testing program more than baseball's. Right or wrong, that is true.

Journeyman · Jun 28, 2007

WC Bias said:
Journey...in addition to most NFL players, add to the list of people I strongly suspect of taking performance enhancing drugs.....

Any boxer from the past 30 years

Any MMA athlete in the past 20 years (Royce Gracie of all people just tested positive)

All track and field athletes

Lance Armstrong

and here is a kicker......

Tiger Woods

But Mark McGwire is a jerk because even though he's never tested positive, he broke a baseball record.

Perfectly stated and probably 100% true, or close to it.

Big Mac , BarryBigHead, jerk -jerk.
Tiger =God, Lance with sentimentalists on his side can do no wrong.

It all comes down to perception and not reality, kind of like making the odds on a sporting event come to think of it.

Journeyman · Jun 28, 2007

fhmesq44 said:
WC,

First, I am not saying the NFL is clean or doesn't get a free pass. J_Man asked why and I am giving my opinion on it. I may be wrong, I may be correct, I have no idea.

The NFL started testing for steroids in 1987, 15 years before baseball's first joke of a testing program. Admittedly in relation to when steroids became a problem in the sport, it is probably about the same time (i.e., 10 years too late). However, NFL is probably viewed as more pro-active than baseball who was reactive.

Additionally, Fehr ALWAYS took the position that he would never allow testing and held that position until the players themselves wanted testing. And, again, it was the players and not Fehr that wanted the stronger testing when they were villified for their stupid 8 strikes and you are suspended for a week policy. Baseball effectively protected players and permitted them to use steroids.

Unless you know something we don't, your contention that the NFL lies and hides positive results is pure speculation. If that is the case and someone ever finds out, you can bet your ass they will be destroyed by anyone and everyone. As it stands now, they have the best defensive player in football for steroids. If they were hiding testing results it would seem they would hide Merriman's. Thus, people implicitly trust the NFL's testing program more than baseball's. Right or wrong, that is true.

I can surely see why you are a lawyer....you really do love to debate.

:thumbsup: I am a fan!

WVU · Jun 28, 2007

The most advanced sport as far as steroid testing over the last 20 years is track and field. They have been testing for a long time

WCBias · Jun 28, 2007

fhmesq44 said:
WC,

First, I am not saying the NFL is clean or doesn't get a free pass. J_Man asked why and I am giving my opinion on it. I may be wrong, I may be correct, I have no idea.

The NFL started testing for steroids in 1987, 15 years before baseball's first joke of a testing program. Admittedly in relation to when steroids became a problem in the sport, it is probably about the same time (i.e., 10 years too late). However, NFL is probably viewed as more pro-active than baseball who was reactive.

Additionally, Fehr ALWAYS took the position that he would never allow testing and held that position until the players themselves wanted testing. And, again, it was the players and not Fehr that wanted the stronger testing when they were villified for their stupid 8 strikes and you are suspended for a week policy. Baseball effectively protected players and permitted them to use steroids.

Unless you know something we don't, your contention that the NFL lies and hides positive results is pure speculation. If that is the case and someone ever finds out, you can bet your ass they will be destroyed by anyone and everyone. As it stands now, they have the best defensive player in football for steroids. If they were hiding testing results it would seem they would hide Merriman's. Thus, people implicitly trust the NFL's testing program more than baseball's. Right or wrong, that is true.

It will be difficult to prove the NFL is covering up anything, because the tests "say" the athlete tested clean. Yet, several Carolina football players busted with steriod prescriptions. All played in the superbowl. Their prescriptions were FILLED within two weeks of the game. Supposedly, all tested clean. I know NFL players that took steroids prior to and while playing in the NFL. Somehow they always tested clean. I've sat in a room with 10 college players sticking needles in their ass. Several went on to play in the NFL, none tested positive.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply debating your assertion that the NFL has been proactive in the fight against steroids. What the NFL has done is serve the best interest of the NFL, which is hide the fact that many of its employees have in the past or continue to use performance enhancers. In other words, they have covered it up. I know, it gets into conspiracy theories, etc.

I hammer on football because they do hide behind their "supposed" testing policy and have been given a free pass because of it. We need to get steroids out of sports, but I don't think that will ever happen. And I hear the next wave of performance enhancers will make athletes bigger and better than ever before.

You either commit to war or wave the white flag.

fhmesq44 · Jun 28, 2007

WC Bias said:
It will be difficult to prove the NFL is covering up anything, because the tests "say" the athlete tested clean. Yet, several Carolina football players busted with steriod prescriptions. All played in the superbowl. Their prescriptions were FILLED within two weeks of the game. Supposedly, all tested clean. I know NFL players that took steroids prior to and while playing in the NFL. Somehow they always tested clean. I've sat in a room with 10 college players sticking needles in their ass. Several went on to play in the NFL, none tested positive.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply debating your assertion that the NFL has been proactive in the fight against steroids. What the NFL has done is serve the best interest of the NFL, which is hide the fact that many of its employees have in the past or continue to use performance enhancers. In other words, they have covered it up. I know, it gets into conspiracy theories, etc.

I hammer on football because they do hide behind their "supposed" testing policy and have been given a free pass because of it. We need to get steroids out of sports, but I don't think that will ever happen. And I hear the next wave of performance enhancers will make athletes bigger and better than ever before.

You either commit to war or wave the white flag.

I don't know why guys don't test positive more often. Presumably (at least to me) it is b/c they mask it and/or are aware of the testing sooner. I know little about the NFL's testing procedures, they may very well provide sufficient notice to allow for masking.

I don't think they have been pro-active, only that the perception is that they have in comparison to baseball. They have been testing for 20 years, baseball for 3. The perception is they addressed the problem 17 years before baseball.

Also, baseball's arrogance is an offensive one, I don't think the NFL's arrogance (or, what you perceive as such) is perceived as offensive. They tout stats, suspensions of super stars, 20 years of testing, stronger testing, testing often, blah blah blah. Baseball's arrogance comes in the form of purported naivete while at the same time Selig was sending memos to owners in the early 90s that steroids are a problem. In comes in Fehr taking intellecually dishonest positions that drug testing is an invasion of privacy so his players can continue to juce. It comes in baseball riding the summer of Sosa and McGwire and then discarding them like used whores when their names turn up in steroid inquiries. It comes in Selig likely refusing to attend Bonds' 756 when he was perpetrator #2 behind Selig in the problem. At least to me, that is why one gets destroyed in the press and the other doesn't.

I completely agree w/ you about removing them from the game BTW