Do any of buy in NL cash games with a small stack?

Iceman · Jul 4, 2007

The simple strategy I have used (and did okay with) stresses being the smallest stack at the table for numerous reasons.

Just wondering what some of the more knowledge players here think of this. Have anyone you heard of this type theroy? This is more for a beginner and I would assume you can't get into many decsions that will cost you major money.

Did pretty well with it but thinking about tweaking it. Any thoughts

primetime21+ · Jul 4, 2007

There was an identical thread to this one about a year or so ago. And i could have sworn that you started it.

I always buy in for the big stack. But that is just my style of play. There are people that buy in short and have a strategy that works for them.

With that being said, 90 percent of people that buy in short do so for the wrong reasons and without the appropriate gameplan. That is usually a bad combination.

dougconnection · Jul 4, 2007

dont matter what i buy in with, i end up giving it away to other players

Iceman · Jul 4, 2007

primetime21 said:
There was an identical thread to this one about a year or so ago. And i could have sworn that you started it.

I always buy in for the big stack. But that is just my style of play. There are people that buy in short and have a strategy that works for them.

With that being said, 90 percent of people that buy in short do so for the wrong reasons and without the appropriate gameplan. That is usually a bad combination.

Wasn't me. Never played poker (maybe in late 80's) until a month ago. Will look for the thread.
Thanks for the heads up!!!

Iceman · Jul 4, 2007

think I found it here

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=333874&highlight=small+stack+poker

levistep · Jul 4, 2007

Most players that do that are scared money.

Iceman · Jul 4, 2007

levistep said:
Most players that do that are scared money.

I read Ed Miller's book (refered to me) and he states that following his ultra tight aggressive approach with the smallest stack at the table, that a beginner has his best chance to win. After a month (up around $500) I think I want to start playing a little less conservative and make some more post flop decisions.

Sort of unique ideas but I highly reccomend it to people that have never really played. You can hold you own with it. Miller says though you will be ridicule by most for buying in small that it gives you the best chance to beat better player with the smallest stack playing mostly a ultra conservative and very aggresivve strategy.

rouxdogg · Jul 4, 2007

Hey, Ice- a bit off topic here- but I know you read a lot of gambling books. Have you read The Complete Book of Sports Betting by Jack Moore. Seems right up your alley. If so, what did you think? I'm about 2/3 of the way through it and have found it pretty interesting. Thanks.

Santo · Jul 5, 2007

I don't think it's any great secret that it's Fezzik's strategy. I can't help but think it would be more applicable to live than online play.

ECS · Jul 5, 2007

I always try to buy for the max. I do this for 2 reasons, A. So I have chips to work with (ie. bluff, ect...), and B. If I do hit the big one, against someone who is willing to play with me I want to get paid off as much as possible.

CookieNBabe · Jul 5, 2007

ECS said:
I always try to buy for the max. I do this for 2 reasons, A. So I have chips to work with (ie. bluff, ect...), and B. If I do hit the big one, against someone who is willing to play with me I want to get paid off as much as possible.

This is about what I was thinking. Dont play poker anymore, but when you do get the nuts, get paid off BIG. Just cause you have the chips, doesnt mean you have to gamble with them.

Another reason to have chips is it will make a guy think twice about calling someone elses raise in front of you, even though he may have a winning hand, he now has the added worry of you coming over the top of everyone.

MrJ · Jul 5, 2007

Have anyone you heard of this type theroy?

Yes, it's been done countless times by many people. You should be asking these questions over at 2+2.

I don't think it's any great secret that it's Fezzik's strategy

More like a common strategy fezzik picked up

Ice, a shortstack strategy is meant to make preflop the most important part of the game. Use a larger stack and get postflop experience, at lower stakes if you're worried about losing money (and you shouldn't at low stakes).

Santo · Jul 5, 2007

I meant, Fezzik is how it was introduced to Ice, via the PokerDAQ idea.

ETH365 · Jul 5, 2007

There definately can be advantages to buying in for the minimum in a no limit game.

The main advantage is that other people cannot (profitably) play hands like suited connectors against you, but (assuming the majority of people at the table have full stacks) people will still be bringing these types of hands in for a raise before you act so you can go all in against them with very little to risk in the case they do happen to have a big hand. Basically playing with a shortstack you need to play much tighter than you would if you had a full stack, wait for aq+/any pair and most likely try to get all the money in before the flop. The types of situations this strategy is most effective in is in loose aggressive games, where you have many players raising and calling with marginal speculative hands, and you can come over the top of them with what is very likely the best hand. You will also find that you get called by a lot of marginal hands like king-10 out of frustration/curiosity to see what you are shoving with all the time, which your range is always ahead of.

Dante · Jul 5, 2007

you want to buy in for the Average Size Stack...if your the Small stack at the table after the buy in your in to big of a game

HatTrick · Jul 5, 2007

ETH365 said:
There definately can be advantages to buying in for the minimum in a no limit game.

The main advantage is that other people cannot (profitably) play hands like suited connectors against you, but (assuming the majority of people at the table have full stacks) people will still be bringing these types of hands in for a raise before you act so you can go all in against them with very little to risk in the case they do happen to have a big hand. Basically playing with a shortstack you need to play much tighter than you would if you had a full stack, wait for aq+/any pair and most likely try to get all the money in before the flop. The types of situations this strategy is most effective in is in loose aggressive games, where you have many players raising and calling with marginal speculative hands, and you can come over the top of them with what is very likely the best hand. You will also find that you get called by a lot of marginal hands like king-10 out of frustration/curiosity to see what you are shoving with all the time, which your range is always ahead of.

Great post.

royalfan · Jul 5, 2007

high stake cash game players hate the short stack as they come in for a raise it somewhat pot commits them. Then they double up and leave.

SoCal · Jul 5, 2007

at a veteran table, the large stacks will be knowledgable enough to push shorty around so that his plays are limited and he's gonna need to get lucky. the old "5 dimes" classic poker table is a good study on this

BillBrasky · Jul 5, 2007

There are many players out there making a living off of shortsacking high limit online games. For instance, if you go to Pokerstars 25/50 tables there will be at least two guys buying in for only 1k. LittleZen is the name of a guy who short stacks perfectly and it annoys the hell out of the regulars. He totally takes advantage of the aggressive players who are raising with marginal hands.

Got a few friends that play in these high stakes games and they wish PokerStars and Fulltilt would have tables where you must buy in for the maximum.

Iceman · Jul 6, 2007

royalfan said:
high stake cash game players hate the short stack as they come in for a raise it somewhat pot commits them. Then they double up and leave.

kind of what I have been doing. When my stack gets high enough, I leave. Been able to grind out a little profit with this approach.