Scalping Pinnacle, should I round scalps ?

Snake46 · Jul 10, 2007

Hi,

I'm new here, and I have a quick question.

I have this little program that I made that parses Pinnacle's lines (as well as other books, actually the others are all exchanges), and finds scalps. Nothing new here, it's been done before, except maybe that my program actually makes the bets automatically (no human intervention).

I've included a restriction on the Pinnacle side where I never bet an amount that's not a multiple of $5. I did this so that I wouldn't be flagged as a scalper by Pinnacle. But sometimes that rounding restriction results in no scalp being available. For example, if my program determines that I need to bet $57 on the Pinnacle side, it would calculate with $55 and $60. But sometimes, $55 and $60 don't result in a scalp, whereas $57 would.

My question is simply this : should I bother rounding bets at Pinnacle ? Do they even care about scalpers ? Do some of you regularly bet amounts that are not multiples of $5 at Pinnacle ?

Thanks.

Dubpoet · Jul 10, 2007

They definitely wont care at all.

lopsided · Jul 10, 2007

I have learned so much from this site, but I can't say I know exactly what scalping is. If someone has time can I get a 2 min explanation. Thanks in advance.

sunnyblue100 · Jul 10, 2007

They won't care at all, I believe their line is pretty sharp, and if you keep scalping with them, you will lose in the long run anyway.

onemwtheone · Jul 10, 2007

Don't even bother making the pinnacle side of the scalp - long term loser.

(oops - what Sunny said - hit reply w/o seeing his post)

onemwtheone · Jul 10, 2007

lopsided said:
I have learned so much from this site, but I can't say I know exactly what scalping is. If someone has time can I get a 2 min explanation. Thanks in advance.

It's where you play both sides of a contest at two different books in such a way that, regardless of the outcome, you make money.

Example:
Book 1 has NYY at BAL at -150/+140
Book 2 has NYY at BAL at -135/+120

You play BAL at book 1 and NYY at book 2. Put $100 on BAL and (say $138) on NYY

If BAL wins, you win $2
If NYY wins, you win $2.22

Basically, it's moving money from one book to another, adding a little extra on the transfer.

Snake46 · Jul 10, 2007

sunnyblue100 said:
They won't care at all, I believe their line is pretty sharp, and if you keep scalping with them, you will lose in the long run anyway.

Thanks for your answer(s) guys, the rounding to $5 is now gone !

But, sorry, I don't understand your point. The ONLY thing I do is arbitrage. So, by definition, I always wager ON BOTH BOOKS involved in the scalp.

And looking at all the arbs my system has bet on in the last month, Pinnacle is THE book that it has used the most. I used to scalp manually using software similar to wagerstation (which only alerts you of arbs, but doesn't make the bets automatically), and although this type of software works fine, you can't be in front of your PC all day. With Pinnacle and the automated betting, you get really juicy arbs, especially in the early hours...

In other words, if Pinnacle wasn't there, I'd be making a lot less

valdosta · Jul 10, 2007

I hate non Americans.:nohead:

goodcall · Jul 10, 2007

Yeah, Pinny won't care at all...you can even keep the cents in.

What the others are saying is that you'll make more money if when there is a scalp available involving Pinnacle, you just take the non-Pinny side. Of course, with that method there is no guarantee that you'll make money on that game in particular, but you should come out ahead in the long run.

Track how often you're depositing into Pinnacle vs. withdrawing, and make a graph in Excel or something showing your net wins/losses at Pinnacle since you've been doing this. Through a couple thousand bets, it will probably be a pretty consistent negative slope.

Best of luck!

sunnyblue100 · Jul 10, 2007

With Pinnacle and the automated betting, you get really juicy arbs, especially in the early hours...

In other words, if Pinnacle wasn't there, I'd be making a lot less

[/quote]

Would love to see some more explanations about automated betting. Thank you.

onemwtheone · Jul 10, 2007

It won't be long before the sw used by the books will include a turing test as part of the confirmation process. Run your bot while you can - I think the days of running something like this are almost gone.

Snake46 · Jul 10, 2007

sunnyblue100 said:
With Pinnacle and the automated betting, you get really juicy arbs, especially in the early hours...

In other words, if Pinnacle wasn't there, I'd be making a lot less

Would love to see some more explanations about automated betting. Thank you.[/quote]

Well, as far as I know, there is no software you can buy that'll do what my program does (automated betting), you have to make your own. Turns out that being a software developer helps... and a good library like Jakarta HttpClient...

Any way to delete this thread ? ;-)

sunnyblue100 · Jul 10, 2007

Snake46 said:
Would love to see some more explanations about automated betting. Thank you.

Well, as far as I know, there is no software you can buy that'll do what my program does (automated betting), you have to make your own. Turns out that being a software developer helps... and a good library like Jakarta HttpClient...

Any way to delete this thread ? ;-)[/quote]

Yes, I got it, thanks :103631605

Halifax · Jul 10, 2007

Snake46 said:
Hi,

I'm new here, and I have a quick question.

I have this little program that I made that parses Pinnacle's lines (as well as other books, actually the others are all exchanges), and finds scalps. Nothing new here, it's been done before, except maybe that my program actually makes the bets automatically (no human intervention).

I've included a restriction on the Pinnacle side where I never bet an amount that's not a multiple of $5. I did this so that I wouldn't be flagged as a scalper by Pinnacle. But sometimes that rounding restriction results in no scalp being available. For example, if my program determines that I need to bet $57 on the Pinnacle side, it would calculate with $55 and $60. But sometimes, $55 and $60 don't result in a scalp, whereas $57 would.

My question is simply this : should I bother rounding bets at Pinnacle ? Do they even care about scalpers ? Do some of you regularly bet amounts that are not multiples of $5 at Pinnacle ?

Thanks.

I guess it goes without saying, but I hope you have the software set up to handle a line change or bet rejection at one of the books (particularly if the bet at the second book has already been confirmed).

Snake46 · Jul 11, 2007

Halifax said:
I guess it goes without saying, but I hope you have the software set up to handle a line change or bet rejection at one of the books (particularly if the bet at the second book has already been confirmed).

Of course... I always make sure the Pinnacle side is accepted, and then I do the exchange. When it involves two exchanges, I make the bets simultaneously, because if the order is not filled at the exchange, it still remains in the system, and it usually is filled at some point in the future.

If ever one side is not filled, then it does become a risk, and my experience has been that I've actually made more money than I lost that way, but I realize it could have gone the other way.

This is an inherent risk when you scalp anyway, and I find that unfilled orders happen a lot less with automated bets than when doing them manually. My bets are usually done within 2-3 seconds after I've verified that the lines are still good for an arb.

But unfilled orders do happen, there's no question.

Scalping Pinnacle, should I round scalps ?

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