After going to the track it baffles me that game is so hard to beat

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Rx Wizard
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Went to the track for a little but today and everytime I go I can't get over how little effort the crowd puts into handicapping.

I think track bettors are the least informed/ put in the least effort of any other type cappers that bet their hard earned money.

There isnt bigger degenrates than horse bettors. I took an unofficial poll of the people standing by me and only 2 out of 18 people even had a racing form in there hands. Most had these 50 cent cheat sheets with just the horses names, posts and jockeys/drivers and have not a clue what they are doing.

The thing I try to always tell myself is "pari-mutel" means betting amongst ourselves. So these people are your true competition. If this is the case than why is it so hard to beat? All you have to do is beat the crowd and the take (and that is where the problem lies).

I have always loved going to the track and trying to solve the puzzles. I have bought close to a dozen (and most are very good) horse handicapping books. It has been something I have always enjoyed. I followed a very small circuit last winter for about 6 weeks. Made speed ratings, developed class ratings and took trip notes and after a great start I eventually gave it all back and then some. Have actually held my own at this small track the past 5 years betting their live races 3 times a month.

I am not sure what the pct of people they say beat the races for a given year but I am willing to bet that people that play the ponies more than 50 times a year (once a week) has to be the lowest pct of winners of all type sports bettors.

Bottom line it is the track's takeout that gets them as it would be like betting -120 on every bet in a sports bet. If -120 was the standard in sports you would also not see a winner. That is why rebates mean everything to someone that plays serious but 99% of the crowd knows nothing about them.

I would love to see 1 person go to the track everyday and beat this game. Not saying it cant be done without rebates but almost impossibile (IMO). Not talking about breaking even as that is an accomplishment in itself but talking actually about beating it to a point it is worth their time and effort.

Hope to give it a serious try later in life when I am an old man.

(oh by the way as you could probably tell I lost today, LOL)
 

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It has to be one of the toughest to beat. The track take out is a killer. Good thing about it is you are betting against everyone else at the track.
I really think this lawyer has found a way to beat the track . He has been doing so for many years. He has a book and a website at
http://www.posttimedaily.com/
 

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I would love to see 1 person go to the track everyday and beat this game. Not saying it cant be done without rebates but almost impossibile (IMO). Not talking about breaking even as that is an accomplishment in itself but talking actually about beating it to a point it is worth their time and effort.

Pure genius!

jjgold says the exact same thing...."nobody can win betting horses"

The old......"if I can't do it, nobody can do it" mentality.

:dogtoilet
 

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UK horses you can generally bet into a under 100% fixed odds market between the books, I can't comprehend betting into the US Tote system at all, but it is what it is.
 

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Horses are hard to beat because of takeouts alone. I found a link on another forum that shows you what the % hold is for each track and type of bet, straight, box etc.. At my local track the avg % is 13 on all bets. Its Finger Lakes a small throughbred track about 20 minutes from my house. I go there a couple times per year for fun, bet the ponies, study the racing form trying to pick winners, its a lot of fun for a few hours. But I'd never try to profit from it, you can't cause of the vig. I'd say its higher than -120 sports bet but I'm not a numbers guy so I could be wrong

You're right about horse guys being the worst degenerate bettors too. Harness guys are the worst of the lot, most of them look like they don't have a pot to piss in
 
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Went to the track for a little but today and everytime I go I can't get over how little effort the crowd puts into handicapping.

I think track bettors are the least informed/ put in the least effort of any other type cappers that bet their hard earned money.

There isnt bigger degenrates than horse bettors. I took an unofficial poll of the people standing by me and only 2 out of 18 people even had a racing form in there hands. Most had these 50 cent cheat sheets with just the horses names, posts and jockeys/drivers and have not a clue what they are doing.

The thing I try to always tell myself is "pari-mutel" means betting amongst ourselves. So these people are your true competition. If this is the case than why is it so hard to beat? All you have to do is beat the crowd and the take (and that is where the problem lies).

I have always loved going to the track and trying to solve the puzzles. I have bought close to a dozen (and most are very good) horse handicapping books. It has been something I have always enjoyed. I followed a very small circuit last winter for about 6 weeks. Made speed ratings, developed class ratings and took trip notes and after a great start I eventually gave it all back and then some. Have actually held my own at this small track the past 5 years betting their live races 3 times a month.

I am not sure what the pct of people they say beat the races for a given year but I am willing to bet that people that play the ponies more than 50 times a year (once a week) has to be the lowest pct of winners of all type sports bettors.

Bottom line it is the track's takeout that gets them as it would be like betting -120 on every bet in a sports bet. If -120 was the standard in sports you would also not see a winner. That is why rebates mean everything to someone that plays serious but 99% of the crowd knows nothing about them.

I would love to see 1 person go to the track everyday and beat this game. Not saying it cant be done without rebates but almost impossibile (IMO). Not talking about breaking even as that is an accomplishment in itself but talking actually about beating it to a point it is worth their time and effort.

Hope to give it a serious try later in life when I am an old man.

(oh by the way as you could probably tell I lost today, LOL)


Get to know some of the trainers and jockeys around the smaller tracks...profit margins will increase...I once went to the Atlantic City meet in the early nineties and was there every day for 40 straight days...hook up with the right connections and won for five straight weeks....:aktion033
 
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Ice..

As you know from other Trends that you have posted about Horses, we are almost the same...You own Horses and so do I.

I have been in the Harness Racing business for over 30 Years. and I understand what you are talking about when you go to the Track and take a look around at What's there !

Most of the people that you see are most likely on the Welfare line each month !! But when you go to a Bigger Track ( not Hazel ) That % will go down a bit.

But all in all you are Right about Handicapping Horse Racing. I find Much more easier then any sport.
But I also feel that because of my backround, I have an edge when it comes to horse racing...( Well Harness racing that is )

I can cap the Flats as well, but not like in Harness. That being because that I have been around them most of my life.
Problem falls onto the Fact that some of those races are Not on the Up and Up !

On finding someone that makes a living on Betting Horses, you would be surpised to find that there are a lot that do.
I for one have made a Big profit on Horse racing. Do I have a Losing night ?? Of course I do ! but overall...I am Way ahead of the Game.

The thing is like Sports betting for some, you can't Bet every Race !
You can Cap them ! but you won't find a Winner in every race !
Need to pick and chose which races have Value.....just like Games
 
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It has to be one of the toughest to beat. The track take out is a killer. Good thing about it is you are betting against everyone else at the track.
I really think this lawyer has found a way to beat the track . He has been doing so for many years. He has a book and a website at
http://www.posttimedaily.com/

Handicapping Magic ????

PLEASE..:puppy:

In the Harness racing game, you can Throw all of that Out the Window !!
 

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Couple of guys on here beat the track on a yearly basis.

I don't--I don't know if I could, but if you are watching replays of the races I think it could help. I have tried to maintain a file on all the horses on a circuit but its such a huge job, I just run out of time.

The guys who beat the game -- know how to bet. They see a situation and exploit it. I think that is their talent in knowing how to "extract" money from a race.
 

I say vee cut off your Chonson !!!!
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I went to Meadowlands with an Old timer I know about 3 weeks ago ... I hadn't been to the track for awhile and never with him before , we were sitting in the VIP Room and I started bullshitting with him , just small talk and he's suddenly gets all serious and says " when you see me reading this ( the racing form) shut da fuck up and don't bother me , we can talk all day long , and all night , but not when im reading this" , he ended up winning $4400 on the day. lol
 
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Couple of guys on here beat the track on a yearly basis.

I don't--I don't know if I could, but if you are watching replays of the races I think it could help. I have tried to maintain a file on all the horses on a circuit but its such a huge job, I just run out of time.

The guys who beat the game -- know how to bet. They see a situation and exploit it. I think that is their talent in knowing how to "extract" money from a race.

You are 100% right...I watch replays All the time and I tape the races at The Meadowlands EVERYNIGHT !! I must have over 10 years worth of races !! LOL this year i started putting them on DVD

If you watch them, you will see a horse from time to time get Locked in or a Driver doesn't really try. Etc... some of these things you can't tell in real time, so taping them Helps big time.
Then it's just watch and see....wait until he gets in again,better post maybe better driver ( you Need to know your Drivers/Jockeys ) You Also need to know your Trainers too. ( Juiceman-uses a fav. driver, etc )
 
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I went to Meadowlands with an Old timer I know about 3 weeks ago ... I hadn't been to the track for awhile and never with him before , we were sitting in the VIP Room and I started bullshitting with him , just small talk and he's suddenly gets all serious and says " when you see me reading this ( the racing form) shut da fuck up and don't bother me , we can talk all day long , and all night , but not when im reading this" , he ended up winning $4400 on the day. lol


:puppy: Yeah I'm a little like that myself...We can Talk...But not when I'm Capping !!
 
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I went to Meadowlands with an Old timer I know about 3 weeks ago ... I hadn't been to the track for awhile and never with him before , we were sitting in the VIP Room and I started bullshitting with him , just small talk and he's suddenly gets all serious and says " when you see me reading this ( the racing form) shut da fuck up and don't bother me , we can talk all day long , and all night , but not when im reading this" , he ended up winning $4400 on the day. lol

VIP Room ??? by the Trackside Restarant ?? Those are Party Rooms, if that's what you are talking about.

I have my own Table at Trackside...Table 12 by the window:103631605
 

Rx Wizard
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Pure genius!

jjgold says the exact same thing...."nobody can win betting horses"

The old......"if I can't do it, nobody can do it" mentality.

:dogtoilet

not at all what I meant. I feel that looking at your competetion and how much dead money it provides, that you would think that this game would be easier than most gambling ventures when in reality I would say (and this is from my own 20 years of going to the track) that the fewest pct of winners are racetrack bettors.

I would like to see it, meaning as an inspiration, too learn some tricks, etc. Because of the take I think this game ranks up there as one of the hardest to beat.

I think talking to a few people in the inside can cash you some nice tickets but I am talking about the everyday gambler who goes there.

Lets say for exapmle you had a 10k bankroll and bet 2% a race and found 3 oppurtunities a day to bet, that is $600 ran thru the totes a day. Even if you had an off the wall type ROI of 10% than you would on average making $60 a day and I can only imagine the time and effort put into that. These are pretty realistic numbers.

What is the old saying "you can beat a race but you can't beat the races" (I think that is it).
 

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screw the takeout and all that stuff.

its tough to beat because
... theyre fu.cking HORSES.
youre not handicapping humans, who can tell you (verbally) when theyre injured, ill, or otherwise not likely to perform at their best. not to mention that humans understand the concept of a 'race', breaking out of the gate cleanly, etc.
 

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so in sum ...
you can have all the info you want. you can have all the edges in your favor.
but when its all said and done, youre betting an animal. and i could never see doing that for anything more than shits and giggles and a few bucks.
 

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i have been betting harness horses since 1973,tough game,no question about it,but it can be beat,good luck guys
 

MrJ

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In some ways it should be better betting on a horse. They're bred to race and they don't have as many emotional/psychological complications as humans. I would think you have more to worry about with the guy riding the horse than the horse itself.
 

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