Mussina: Back on track for the Hall

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t3a

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Mike Mussina was pretty much written off after his horrible 3 game stretch a few weeks ago. But he has now had 2 starts back in the rotation, winning both and without allowing a run in 12+ innings.

After tonight's win, he also evened his record at 10-10, and set an AL record with 16 straight seasons with 10 or more wins. In those 16 seasons only had one losing record, 2000 with Baltimore when he was victimized by pathetic run support. YES I KNOW HE HAS NEVER WON 20 GAMES. He has been unlucky in that regard.
:nopityA:

Look at Tom Glavine, a sure Hall of Famer, with 303 wins from 666 starts (45.5%) Mussina has 249 from 500, basically 50%. I think Pedro is the only active pitcher who has won a higher percentage of his starts than Mussina. Mussina 57 complete games, 23 shutouts. Glavine has 56 and 25. Remember Glavine had back-to-back losing seasons when he joined the Mets, so Mussina's 10-10 record this year doesnt look so bad by comparison.

Glavine does have a Series ring, but he has a record of 10-13 in the NLCS and World Series. Mussina has pitched well in the postseason with not much to show for it - Exhibit A when Baltimore played Cleveland in the 1997 ALCS and Mussina had 25Ks in 15 innings of work but no wins because the O's couldnt hit when he was on the mound


I am not predicting he will have 3 more good years like Glavine just did, but if he does I dont think you can judge him just based on the lack of 20 win years or no World Series ring
 

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6-18-08:

Mussina (10-4) allowed three runs and six hits to reach 10 wins for the 17th straight season, extending his American League record. It’s the third time in his career and the first time since 2003 he’s done it within 15 starts.
Mussina got off to a rocky start in his 260th victory, allowing a double and a single in the first inning before Carlos Lee’s three-run homer. The 39-year-old got on track after that, retiring seven of the next eight batters before a single by Lee with one out in the fourth.



If he retied today i'd give him 0% chance at HOF. He only gets it if he gets 300. He needs 3 more decent years after this. HE is on the right team though that will get any INNINGS type pitcher 12-15 wins a year just by trotting out there.
 

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no way this guy gets in. Mediocre pitcher who played beyond what he should have to inflate his numbers.
 

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no way this guy gets in. Mediocre pitcher who played beyond what he should have to inflate his numbers.

Mediocre pitcher?
Hold the AL record for most consecutive 10 win seasons (17x)
Mediocre pitcher?
112 games over .500 in his career (260-148)
Medicore pitcher?
Career ratio of 1.19, a full .25 points over league average (substancial)
Medicore pitcher?
5 time allstar, 8 times in ther top ten in Cy Young award balloting.
(six and nine after this season)
Medicore pitcher?
six time gold glove award winner.
Medicore pitcher?
Leads the American League in wins with ten (actually tied).

Mediocre pitcher?
Advanced scouts say, and I quote "when on, Mussina's overhand curve ball is the most devastating pitch in the game"

Don't assisinate his character by saying Moose is holding on to inflate his numbers, he's not all about that, and it makes you look foolish.

If Moose is mediocre, compare him to Juan Marichal, because they are similar, I suppose Marichal was mediocre also.
 

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He'd have a better chance of getting in if he didn't get, what, 3 no-hitters/perfect games broken up in the 8th or 9th innings during his career? Including Carl Everett's 0-2 'let's swing at a pitch at my eyeball level' base hit.
And acting like he won game 7 of the WS running to first.
Meanwhile, Moose is on his way to another AS game, and I watch Everett play for the Long Island Ducks against my Bridgeport Blue Fish up the street here in B-Port in the Independent League.
 

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I keep writing this guy off but he continues to bounce back. At 40 years of age he won't win 300...I doubt we will see another 300 game winner for years to come. Maybe never.
 

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Interesting post. When I first saw it, I said to myself, 'Mussina in the Hall...no way'. Then I looked at his stats. Moose DOES deserve to be in. He won 260 games so far and his career win % is .637. This is his 18th year and and he's been extremely durable throughout his career.
But the thing that impresses me the most is that he pitched all throughout the steroid era. Not too many starters were able to pitch that long in the '90's and 2000's. I'm thinking Moose, Maddux, Glavine, Schilling, maybe Kevin Brown.
Thanks for calling that to my attention t3a.
And is Carl Everett really still playing??
 

For G-Baby
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He's had a wonderful career and was one of the top few pitchers in baseball back when he was with the Orioles. The biggest thing he has going for him is that he should be able to pitch for at least a few more years because he's durable and he simply knows how to pitch, in that Gred Maddux-mold.

He's long been probably my favorite player in baseball despite playing for the Yankees, so maybe I'm somewhat biased, but the guy was really underrated when he was leading some great Orioles teams.

Don't forget that he also spent his ENTIRE career in the AL East, going up against some very good Toronto, New York, and Boston teams throughout various times in his career.
 

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And is Carl Everett really still playing??

Long Island Ducks, Independent League.
I live withing walking distance to Harbor Yards, where the Bridgeport Blue Fish play, Everett is in the same division, he's the DH for the Ducks, I've see him play, he seems happy in the bush leagues.
 

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Mediocre pitcher?
Hold the AL record for most consecutive 10 win seasons (17x)
Mediocre pitcher?
112 games over .500 in his career (260-148)
Medicore pitcher?
Career ratio of 1.19, a full .25 points over league average (substancial)
Medicore pitcher?
5 time allstar, 8 times in ther top ten in Cy Young award balloting.
(six and nine after this season)
Medicore pitcher?
six time gold glove award winner.
Medicore pitcher?
Leads the American League in wins with ten (actually tied).

Mediocre pitcher?
Advanced scouts say, and I quote "when on, Mussina's overhand curve ball is the most devastating pitch in the game"

Don't assisinate his character by saying Moose is holding on to inflate his numbers, he's not all about that, and it makes you look foolish.

If Moose is mediocre, compare him to Juan Marichal, because they are similar, I suppose Marichal was mediocre also.


dude has only broke era under 3 for a season twice.First two years of his career. And the first one he only started 12 games.

He has never won 20 games in a single season.

every other year he had 10+ losses on yankee teams that were loaded and made the playoffs every year.

He has a good pitch to lean on, seems like he only has it ever other start. Let me guess you think curt shilling should be in to?
 

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maybe im just harder on players then others but i think the hall should be for the elite players and i dont see mike in that category. Perfect example he is getting over 5 runs a game of support this season. Anyone that eats up innings will win a majority of those.
 

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He has never won 20 games in a single season.

every other year he had 10+ losses on yankee teams that were loaded and made the playoffs every year.

He has a good pitch to lean on, seems like he only has it ever other start. Let me guess you think curt shilling should be in to?

260-148 lifetime record is not every other start.
Every other start would be 200-200 lifetime.

Career ERA in the best hitting division in the history of baseball is 3.71 the league ERA is 4.51, (adjusted for ball parks)

Owns an outstanding ERA + of 122 for his career.
 

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maybe im just harder on players then others but i think the hall should be for the elite players and i dont see mike in that category. Perfect example he is getting over 5 runs a game of support this season. Anyone that eats up innings will win a majority of those.
It's all good, I've been defending Moose in sports bars for years.
Defended Phil Simms in sports bars for years also.
 

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i agree with phil simms, he was the mind of that offense and won 2 super bowls with really not to much offensive talent even though he had a great defense. He has otis anderson towards the end of his career and he also had mark bavaro. Kind of reminds me of vince youngs situation with no one but frank wychek. Vince is no where near phil's level yet or might not ever be but he is stuck in a similar situation.
 

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You can't give a player a seat in the HOF for not even dominating his era or leading the league in anything. Mussina doesn't come close to HOF. Same reason I wouldn't put Biggio in it. Don't believe either player has led the league in anything or come close to winning a MVP or a Cy Young.
 

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You can't give a player a seat in the HOF for not even dominating his era or leading the league in anything. Mussina doesn't come close to HOF. Same reason I wouldn't put Biggio in it. Don't believe either player has led the league in anything or come close to winning a MVP or a Cy Young.

1999 - 2nd in Cy Young voting (how close you want Red Eye?)
Finished Top 5 Cy Young in 5 other times.

Finished Top 3 in ERA 4 times.
Close enough for you?

Finished Top ten in ratio (WHIP) 10 times

Finished Top ten in strikeouts 10 times.

These are just the primary categories, I could wear you out with ancillary categories if you want.
 

Nirvana Shill
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1999 - 2nd in Cy Young voting (how close you want Red Eye?)
Finished Top 5 Cy Young in 5 other times.

Finished Top 3 in ERA 4 times.
Close enough for you?

Finished Top ten in ratio (WHIP) 10 times

Finished Top ten in strikeouts 10 times.

These are just the primary categories, I could wear you out with ancillary categories if you want.

Maybe I was a little off with him but he still did not dominate a era. No hall of fame
 

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He's had a wonderful career and was one of the top few pitchers in baseball back when he was with the Orioles. The biggest thing he has going for him is that he should be able to pitch for at least a few more years because he's durable and he simply knows how to pitch, in that Gred Maddux-mold.

He's long been probably my favorite player in baseball despite playing for the Yankees, so maybe I'm somewhat biased, but the guy was really underrated when he was leading some great Orioles teams.

Don't forget that he also spent his ENTIRE career in the AL East, going up against some very good Toronto, New York, and Boston teams throughout various times in his career.

skins...whats your email address?
 

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billhill, where do you get the stats about his finishes in the cy young voting? can you post a link for me?
 

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