Online Poker - Rigged?

al_corona · Apr 28, 2008

Okay. So its about 1am and I am angry and frustrated. Heres the scenario:

I have been playing poker online for about 3 years. I have paid my dues in money lost. I have read countless books. I play tournaments and cash games.
I play on fulltilt. I am sure they have rigged software. I'll be playing 1/2 NL. I'll have a good hand like AA KK QQ and some guy will raise to 8. I re raise to 28. The guy calls. The flop will come 4 9 8 or some trash like that. I check he moved all in. I call. I have Aces. He turns over say 10-6 and will hit his 7 on the turn or the river. This happens WAY to often. I am not by any means a bad poker player. I should make money. I am extremely suprised I do not make money. I will be up about $1,000 and without fail 9/10 times I will lose it all back.

I am not saying it's not ever my fault. I have done some dumb moves/bluffs and been called, but that I am okay with, that is poker. The thing I have a problem with is way too often the bad hands beat the good hands. It's got to the point where I am now absolutely scared and terrified of playing poker anywhere on the internet. If I have poker kings i cringed and wan't to fold. I don't even like to play Aces or QQ or KK anymore. I couldn't catch a cold. It happens to me atleast 5 pots a day WHEN I AM ALL-IN that my "80% or 90%" hand favorite gets crushed by some guy playin garbage?

I don't understand what I am doing wrong. I literally am losing way too many pots. I do EXCELLENT when I play poker at the actual poker room. I do EXCELLENT when I go to vegas. I just get my ass handed to me online.

Should I just do a fu cking chargeback and stop playing on the internet? Is there ANY possibility that something is seriously wrong w/ the site? I really wan't to do the chargeback out of pure principle. I refuse to support a company that would steal from players by rigging stuff.

I am telling you guys I am not a bad player. I am good but on the internet I just cannot win. I always bust out..... it's almost a given.

GreenDoberman · Apr 28, 2008

calm down. i want to beat the walls sometimes. deep breaths , calm down

MackDonald · Apr 28, 2008

Hang in there "Cigar Man"; there are a lot of people that stay up late (or get up early) and do their "thing" on this piece of modern technology.

Poker on the Internet; who would have ever imagined (20 years ago) yet here we are, going at it morning, noon and night. As far as omebody "rigging" this amazing scenerio (in today's world) would't surprise me one bit. We've seen a hell of a lot worse.

howid · Apr 28, 2008

fixed

ProPokerPlayer · Apr 28, 2008

All i can tell you, and boy do i feel your pain, is stop getting all-in and dont see the river card.
You dont always have to get all-in with big pairs. People are to quick to both do that and to call on the internet.
Also when you make the 4,5or 6X BB raise before the flop and then another huge bet on the flop you are announcing your hand AND probably giving decent implied odds to try to beat it.
AA,etc is a great hnd but the way most people play it is to literally turn them over face up , put all their chips in the middle and say "come and get em".
Doyle says AA and KK are good for 1 thing, winning a small pot or losing a BIG one...
Look at it like this also, only 1-8 i think times will u make a set and only about 30% of the time will the board pair giving you 2 pr...even rarer will you hit a flush or straight using 1 of them..So the vast majority of the time in the end you will have 1 pair...1 big pr but thats all..
Slow down with em unless your deep in a tourny and see if your results dont improve..

Dante · Apr 28, 2008

ProPokerPlayer said:
All i can tell you, and boy do i feel your pain, is stop getting all-in and dont see the river card.
You dont always have to get all-in with big pairs. People are to quick to both do that and to call on the internet.
Also when you make the 4,5or 6X BB raise before the flop and then another huge bet on the flop you are announcing your hand AND probably giving decent implied odds to try to beat it.
AA,etc is a great hnd but the way most people play it is to literally turn them over face up , put all their chips in the middle and say "come and get em".
Doyle says AA and KK are good for 1 thing, winning a small pot or losing a BIG one...
Look at it like this also, only 1-8 i think times will u make a set and only about 30% of the time will the board pair giving you 2 pr...even rarer will you hit a flush or straight using 1 of them..So the vast majority of the time in the end you will have 1 pair...1 big pr but thats all..
Slow down with em unless your deep in a tourny and see if your results dont improve..

VERY SHARP post..especially the first part

Dante · Apr 28, 2008

al_corona said:
Okay. So its about 1am and I am angry and frustrated. Heres the scenario:

I have been playing poker online for about 3 years. I have paid my dues in money lost. I have read countless books. I play tournaments and cash games.
I play on fulltilt. I am sure they have rigged software. I'll be playing 1/2 NL. I'll have a good hand like AA KK QQ and some guy will raise to 8. I re raise to 28. The guy calls. The flop will come 4 9 8 or some trash like that. I check he moved all in. I call. I have Aces. He turns over say 10-6 and will hit his 7 on the turn or the river. This happens WAY to often. I am not by any means a bad poker player. I should make money. I am extremely suprised I do not make money. I will be up about $1,000 and without fail 9/10 times I will lose it all back.

I am not saying it's not ever my fault. I have done some dumb moves/bluffs and been called, but that I am okay with, that is poker. The thing I have a problem with is way too often the bad hands beat the good hands. It's got to the point where I am now absolutely scared and terrified of playing poker anywhere on the internet. If I have poker kings i cringed and wan't to fold. I don't even like to play Aces or QQ or KK anymore. I couldn't catch a cold. It happens to me atleast 5 pots a day WHEN I AM ALL-IN that my "80% or 90%" hand favorite gets crushed by some guy playin garbage?

I don't understand what I am doing wrong. I literally am losing way too many pots. I do EXCELLENT when I play poker at the actual poker room. I do EXCELLENT when I go to vegas. I just get my ass handed to me online.

Should I just do a fu cking chargeback and stop playing on the internet? Is there ANY possibility that something is seriously wrong w/ the site? I really wan't to do the chargeback out of pure principle. I refuse to support a company that would steal from players by rigging stuff.

I am telling you guys I am not a bad player. I am good but on the internet I just cannot win. I always bust out..... it's almost a given.

my 2 cents

sounds to me like you need a break... poker is a game of skill but also alot of luck , it does not seemd rigged to me what you describe it sounds like he drew out on you and went runner runner for the straight ... take a break for a month do not re-up and try to get it all back in one day and please do not become a stiff with the chargebacks...

al_corona · Apr 28, 2008

Dante said:
my 2 cents

sounds to me like you need a break... poker is a game of skill but also alot of luck , it does not seemd rigged to me what you describe it sounds like he drew out on you and went runner runner for the straight ... take a break for a month do not re-up and try to get it all back in one day and please do not become a stiff with the chargebacks...

Good post. Your right about AA or KK (well, doyle is) you either win a small pot or lose a big one. I will start trying some different strategies. My foundation is there. My skill is there. Like I said, I am not a bad player. I am actually right 80% of the time as to what the players are playing. Today I self-excluded myself from full tilt poker for the next 3 months. Maybe this will help me... I have lost a little of $3,000 in the passed month and a half. Another thing I do is really bad bankroll management. I tend to be playing outside my limits.

Thanks for the posts boys!

Twisted · Apr 28, 2008

It is most definitely rigged!

I have been playin on line since Stars opened initially sticking with small tournies and sit and gos. Then one day after i had built up a nice bank I sit on a larger table and see all the shit that has been described. I noticed especially when I moved to higher limit heads up matches. I did/do great on lower limit and you see a lot less BS with idiots calling all ins with 83os and hittin them. Any program can be altered and not sure how true it is but have been told each site has players where they can see all cards held. My advice is to stick to lower limits, they dont bother with ya then. Poker is frustrating enough w/o havin to deal with unrealistic calls that would never be made at such levels.

Hang in there n GL

ShoelessJoe · Apr 28, 2008

There is certainly the ability to cheat in online poker. Besides collusion between players, there was a big scandal not long ago involving Absolute Poker and the ability of some players to "see" all of the cards in advance.

The story is that software programmers needed accounts with special privileges to test and debug the poker software and these accounts remained "live" afterwards. These accounts were known by a select few who then fleeced the unsuspecting of millions of $.

Check this out The Absolute Poker Cheating Scandal Blown Wide Open - Freakonomics ...

or just google "absolute poker" cheating.

Anonymous1 · Apr 28, 2008

"poker is a game of skill but also alot of luck"

End of discussion Dante-ALOT.

woodypaige · Apr 28, 2008

Poker Machines in Bars pay out between 20%-40% depending on the owners settings. Why would anyone think that on-line poker would be any different. I would say they pay out about 10% if lucky. If you play on-line just figure your money to be a donation.

honkee · Apr 28, 2008

I feel your pain which is why i dont play anymore.I guess by playing alot more omaha now, i know not to push unless i have the absolute nuts.

If your a tight player at the table and pretty much just call and dont raise much.Than your in a hand later where u raise 4xbb, your flashing dead red to get cracked.
You better believe i would call you if im sitting there with a 9,q or t/j suited.
I still believe the software doesnt reward pussy soft players..

ProPokerPlayer · Apr 28, 2008

1 other observation i have made and this goes to both online and live poker..I would estimate that at least 8 of 10 players i have seen have NO buisness playing no-limit holdem, none whatsoever.
No limit is a game of patience and NUTS, and not the 5 card kind either..Yet the reason u hear ppl say they dont play limit is it takes to long to win any money. ppl who say that have no patience and therefore NL is the LAST thing they should be playing. I rarely play NL cash games even locally because the limit games are just as soft, just as beatable and my skill level is way above most everyone at the table. Im never going to win 1k in 1 hand thats true but im never going to lose a whole buy-in in 1 hand either. And i can play a limit game for 10-12 straight hours, i dont think there are more than a few ppl who can play NL that long and not walk away with empty pockets. Most of the people playing NL are looking to double up every hand they play and thats the kind of players SKILLED NL players are looking for...in fact id be willing to bet that the original NL players came up with the game just for that reason.
Get you a couple of good limit holdem books, practice what they preach and even in no foldem 3/6 games you will play longer, win more and generally find the whole poker experiance much more enjoyable..
If your really just wanting to gamble and get rich quick i say screw poker and play craps or roulette..The majority of players ive seen have just as good a chance of hitting a big score and their frustration level is way lower..

TheBrainiac · Apr 28, 2008

there are people who made millions with online pokah ... obvious I am not one of them but still ...

AdamSelene · Apr 28, 2008

woody paige said:
Poker Machines in Bars pay out between 20%-40% depending on the owners settings.

Poker machines is bars, WTF is that?

Video Poker returns can be calculated by anyone just plugging the payout table numbers into an Excel spreadsheet. Public information, no "configured" secret value.

See http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker

Any machine not dealing truly random cards is fraudulent.

woody paige said:
Why would anyone think that on-line poker would be any different.

Because the house makes the rake, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else someone loses is someone else's gain. Rake has a published schedule and is shown in every hand for everyone to see. It is impossible for online poker to be rigged to favor the house.

ParanoidAndroid · Apr 28, 2008

ProPokerPlayer said:
All i can tell you, and boy do i feel your pain, is stop getting all-in and dont see the river card.
You dont always have to get all-in with big pairs. People are to quick to both do that and to call on the internet.
Also when you make the 4,5or 6X BB raise before the flop and then another huge bet on the flop you are announcing your hand AND probably giving decent implied odds to try to beat it.
AA,etc is a great hnd but the way most people play it is to literally turn them over face up , put all their chips in the middle and say "come and get em".
Doyle says AA and KK are good for 1 thing, winning a small pot or losing a BIG one...

You have the right instincts, but are drawing the wrong conclusions. You WANT to get heads-up with AA,KK, etx as quickly as possible. The more people you let in the pot the less they will hold up. There isn't a solid poker book out there that will tell you to slow play big pairs at full tables. Do you know how often AA will win 8-handed? Its something like less than 30%. You need to get the smalls guys out and get heads-up quickly. That's why the quote is true, you win a SMALL pot because its usually just one other player in there. If you're building a big pot then its because you let too many players in an you're increasing the odds of your AA getting crushed.

TheBrainiac · Apr 28, 2008

LOL at sites like pokerstars or fulltilt rigging something with danger to be caught and lose free money they gain with rake every fkn hand played at their site .

AdamSelene · Apr 28, 2008

Online poker is not rigged. If it were, how do you explain the online professionals that consistently make money? No, they do not all possess "secret information" or have figured out some algorithm, no grand conspiracy, it is just skill, patience and time.

Collusion? Absolutely, can happen, be careful.

Security hole? Yes. Broken shuffle algorithm (Planet Poker, 1999), back-end system compromise (Absolute Poker, 2007).

Rigged? No.

Read more books. Get software like Poker Tracker and start analyzing your long-term play statistics.

The Absolute Poker scammer(s) were caught by statistical analysis. The number don't lie. The numbers say that online poker is not rigged, and Absolute Poker like scenarios stick out like a sore thumb.

go2guy · Apr 28, 2008

Adam Selene said:
Poker machines is bars, WTF is that?

Video Poker returns can be calculated by anyone just plugging the payout table numbers into an Excel spreadsheet. Public information, no "configured" secret value.

See http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker

Any machine not dealing truly random cards is fraudulent.

Because the house makes the rake, nothing more, nothing less. Everything else someone loses is someone else's gain. Rake has a published schedule and is shown in every hand for everyone to see. It is impossible for online poker to be rigged to favor the house./quote]

You don't have to rig it persay. What about "house players" or bots? In the age of greed, you honestly think some poker rooms in the Wild Wild West of no regulation online poker won't try to get more outta you?

Online Poker - Rigged?

RX Poster

Rx. Senior

Member

Banned

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar

Active member

Active member

RX Poster

Dain Bramaged

New member

New member

Member

New member

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar

They who lose today may win tomorrow

Programmer

Rx .Junior

They who lose today may win tomorrow

Programmer

Smell like "lemon juice and Pledge furniture clean

Forum statistics

Share this page