Wonder what pct of so called poker pros have a losing year

Iceman · May 8, 2008

I love to read poker magazines (Poker Pro, Bluff, Card Player). In every issue of those magazines there are a few different articles about players who play professionally. Most have the same type story about how they quit what they were doing to "turn pro". It goes on to list their accomplishments in each article. I find these articles interesting to read.

Obviously everyone is not winning. Wondering what pct of pro's have a losing year. I am sure there is no way to answer this question but for every dollar won there is a dollar lost so I would love to know how many pros are actually winning money for the year at the table.

festeringZit · May 8, 2008

Doyle mentions in the latest CardPlayer magazine that
he couldn't sleep one night because he had lost
$400K that day.

Though I have a feeling Doyle is financially set.

texansfan · May 8, 2008

Doyle has said one of his biggest regrets is not buying into the WPT when it was offered to him by Lyle Berman.

I have read where Lindgren states he needs 800k a year just for traveling and entry fees.

JohnnyB · May 8, 2008

Iceman said:
Wondering what pct of pro's have a losing year.

Very few true pros would have a losing year nowadays. You always hear successful players say things like "even the best can go on a downswing that lasts over a year" but that was mainly true back when players had to sit and play in B&M casinos, before online poker became big. Playing live you might only get 25 hands an hour, online most pros play 4 tables at the least, allowing them to play 200 hands per hour (12 tabling, with ~600 hands per hour is not uncommon among online pros) and thus the swings, both up and down, last much shorter timewise.

tkf18ny · May 9, 2008

in the old days it happened more often since it was all live- a lot less hands
ive done since about dec 2004 and finally had my first losing MONTH in dec 2007

ParanoidAndroid · May 9, 2008

texansfan said:
I have read where Lindgren states he needs 800k a year just for traveling and entry fees.

Good to know, I have always wondered about that. You figure these guys are traveling for tournaments, each one is about a month long and they're staying in hotels. So, even if you're splitting the room costs with someone (which may or may not be the case) when you factor in entry fees of playing in a tourney virtually every day, its a very expensive way to make a living. I knew it was high, but 800K is more than I imagined. Sounds really high, but that's probably about the average for these guys.

shiz · May 9, 2008

I can't believe the rooms are not comped(sp?) for the big name players.

Dante · May 9, 2008

shiz said:
I can't believe the rooms are not comped(sp?) for the big name players.

I agree...I thought they would be paid to be in tourneys or on TV which would mean people covering entry fees and rooms

PS I wonder when Ole' Doyle lost the 400K was he on tilt? :O)

ProPokerPlayer · May 9, 2008

The list of poker pros who have lost money online is very long.
Matasow, Harmon, Hellmuth, Benyamine,
Negranue all have admitted to heavy losses..
Hellmuth lost a few hundred thousnad to 1 of those cheating poker sites that those in the know here know dont exsist..

At Full Tilt you may be surprised to know that when your playing high stakes with 1 of their pros and that rake gets taken out every hand...that at the end of the session the pros get 100% of their rake back...you get nada.

They are pd nothing for TV tournys , in fact i listened to Greenstein last night and unlike say the NFL which is paid millions for in TV revenue these poker tournys you see on TV are virtually free to the networks...

ParanoidAndroid · May 9, 2008

ProPokerPlayer said:
At Full Tilt you may be surprised to know that when your playing high stakes with 1 of their pros and that rake gets taken out every hand...that at the end of the session the pros get 100% of their rake back...you get nada.

Why is this surprising? It's called a "prop player" and they've been around almost as long as the first poker room. They're not "house players" because props play with their own money but most of them are either given their rake back or are paid an hourly wage equivalent to what the rake should be. It's a very common practice, a "ProPokerPlayer" shouldn't be surprised by it at all. :lol:

MesaChaser · May 9, 2008

A good friend of mine has worked as a professional poker player for the last ten years here in Phoenix and he has had a few losing months but never a losing year.
He is also employed by a large casino in the area and paid an hourly wage to fill tables. He doesn't get his rake back but gets full benefits and his hourly wage. He gambles his own money. I suspect a lot of casinos do this.

Betallsports · May 9, 2008

Dante said:
I agree...I thought they would be paid to be in tourneys or on TV which would mean people covering entry fees and rooms

PS I wonder when Ole' Doyle lost the 400K was he on tilt? :O)

I would think Their Rooms are Comp, Nothing Else.

Maybe for Wearing a Baseball cap or T-Shirt,( a little PR work ) but they are Paying their own Entry fees.

WorldNumberOne · May 9, 2008

shiz said:
I can't believe the rooms are not comped(sp?) for the big name players.

i dont see why their rooms should be comped. the casino isnt making anything because they are there .

the players are there playing in an event.

that would be like a hotel comping the detroit tigers baseball team because they are in town for a series .

pga tour players rooms arent comped.

GoBlue34 · May 9, 2008

All the advertising money these guys get crush whatever they are making actually playing poker.

I highly doubt most pay anything to play on top of that.

Wonder what pct of so called poker pros have a losing year

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