Anyone other than me sick of the Hornets and all the Chris Paul talk

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about as sick as i was hearing about north carolina and tyler hansbrough.

:103631605

you get my point though. the media is horrible when it comes to letting good players stand alone on their own merit. paul is a fantastic player. norleans a solid team. hansbrough a fantastic player. carolina a solid team. but for whatever reason, the media almost feels like they have to turn it up to level 10 when level 3 or 4 is more than sufficient.
 

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same with lebron, good or bad ESPN shoves him down our throats.

and this is so true. which is another good example of a terrific player not being able to stand alone on his own. the kid is the 2nd best basketball player on the planet. but he obviously has a handful of flaws in his game ... but youd never know it watching espn or reading the papers.
 

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yes i agreed guys, seem like every day since MJ left the game they got to find someone to come up and be his equal it seems.i agreed tyler was in the news at the top of the page way too much this yr, but all i hear is cris should have been the mvp, this was not even close to me as this guy is nowhere the complete player as kobe is at this time..ck
 

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Deron Williams > Chris Paul


Better shooter: D Will

Better passer: Even

Better penetrator: Paul

Better handles: Paul

Better defender: D Will

Better leader: D Will (more calm, cool, collected - doesn't whine and flop all game)

Head to head: D Will 8-2 vs Paul
 

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it just seems this bad because Choptalk starts a thread every othet hour about the subject.
 

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and this is so true. which is another good example of a terrific player not being able to stand alone on his own. the kid is the 2nd best basketball player on the planet. but he obviously has a handful of flaws in his game ... but youd never know it watching espn or reading the papers.

I think the key words to your statement are "stand alone on his own". If the NBA were a viable form of entertainment they wouldn't feel the need to embellish players and give them consolations in order to hype the game.
 

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Can't really say D Will is a better leader at this point. He a) is playing for a team that finished lower than NO b) is playing with many more seasoned veterans that don't need to be 'led' as much.

In fact, he looks downright passive at times on the court.


Fine. But he isn't bitching and whining and "chippy" all game. His demeanor is preferred for me.

You guys can have CP3. I'll gladly take D Will.
 

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Better shooter: D Will

Better passer: Even

Better penetrator: Paul

Better handles: Paul

Better defender: D Will

Better leader: D Will (more calm, cool, collected - doesn't whine and flop all game)

Head to head: D Will 8-2 vs Paul


Not sure how the better passer is even. It in fact isn't even close. Passing and ball handling Paul blows him away. Paul averaged 11.6 APG to 2.5 turnovers. D Will averaged 10.5 and 3.4. Passing and dribbling I don't think they're in the same class. D Will is a bigger body but he is shockingly a worse defender. Chris Paul led the league in steals, and while they may not indicate how good of a defender you are it is one of the manners you judge a defender by. Chris Paul is better defender. Deron Williams gets blown away by quicker guards on a consistent basis. The head to head doesn't make sense because the Jazz have been good for longer than NO.

I'll give you that he is a better shooter right now, but the gap is closing quickly. CP3 improved his 3 point shooting drastically this season and shot 5% higher from the field which is another drastic difference. By next year I wouldn't be surprised if CP3 shot a higher percentage from the line, field, and behind the arc.

To say Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul is a stretch to say the least. Chris Paul is the best PG in the game and there clearly is a gap between him and the number two. Similar to Kobe being the best and there being a gap between Kobe and and the second best. Not saying Deron isn't a great player but he is not in Chris Paul's class.
 

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Can't really say D Will is a better leader at this point. He a) is playing for a team that finished lower than NO b) is playing with many more seasoned veterans that don't need to be 'led' as much.

In fact, he looks downright passive at times on the court.


isn't utah the 3rd youngest team in the NBA?
 

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Not sure how the better passer is even. It in fact isn't even close. Passing and ball handling Paul blows him away. Paul averaged 11.6 APG to 2.5 turnovers. D Will averaged 10.5 and 3.4. Passing and dribbling I don't think they're in the same class. D Will is a bigger body but he is shockingly a worse defender. Chris Paul led the league in steals, and while they may not indicate how good of a defender you are it is one of the manners you judge a defender by. Chris Paul is better defender. Deron Williams gets blown away by quicker guards on a consistent basis. The head to head doesn't make sense because the Jazz have been good for longer than NO.

I'll give you that he is a better shooter right now, but the gap is closing quickly. CP3 improved his 3 point shooting drastically this season and shot 5% higher from the field which is another drastic difference. By next year I wouldn't be surprised if CP3 shot a higher percentage from the line, field, and behind the arc.

To say Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul is a stretch to say the least. Chris Paul is the best PG in the game and there clearly is a gap between him and the number two. Similar to Kobe being the best and there being a gap between Kobe and and the second best. Not saying Deron isn't a great player but he is not in Chris Paul's class.

D Will is BY FAR a better defender than Paul, so your argument isn't credible. Assists are the most meaningless statistic in basketball. You can make an awesome pass and have a teammate miss a shot and get nothing for it, or you can dump the ball into the post and have your PF make a move and get an assist. Williams having less assists than Paul does not make him a lesser passer. Kobe and Lebron are both better passers than Paul and average far less assists

If Deron Williams isn't in Chris Paul's class why is he 8-2 head to head? There are many PG's in Chris Paul's "class" not just D Will. Turn down the sound on the TV. Chauncey Billups has accomplished FAR more in his career than Paul has with far less the hype.

Chris Paul's current resume:

1 All Star appearance
1 NBA assist title
1 All-NBA team selection
1 2nd rd playoff appearance
1 MVP runner-up

The overhype for this kid is unreal. He is a great player and may accomplish a ton in his career. To date he has accomplished nothing
 

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D Will is BY FAR a better defender than Paul, so your argument isn't credible. Assists are the most meaningless statistic in basketball. You can make an awesome pass and have a teammate miss a shot and get nothing for it, or you can dump the ball into the post and have your PF make a move and get an assist. Williams having less assists than Paul does not make him a lesser passer. Kobe and Lebron are both better passers than Paul and average far less assists

If Deron Williams isn't in Chris Paul's class why is he 8-2 head to head? There are many PG's in Chris Paul's "class" not just D Will. Turn down the sound on the TV. Chauncey Billups has accomplished FAR more in his career than Paul has with far less the hype.

Chris Paul's current resume:

1 All Star appearance
1 NBA assist title
1 All-NBA team selection
1 2nd rd playoff appearance
1 MVP runner-up

The overhype for this kid is unreal. He is a great player and may accomplish a ton in his career. To date he has accomplished nothing


Your argument on assists being pointless is outrageous. I always compare the argument of making a great pass and missing, and making an easy pass and making it to baseball.

In baseball you'll hit balls hard that are caught and you'll hit balls soft that aren't caught, but over time the numbers will show your true abilities to hit the ball hard.

It is similar with assists. If you continually set your teammates up to make shots that are very makable the numbers will return to the mean. Yeah there will be games in which you get lucky and you'll get games when you're unlucky but over a season if you set your teammates up to make makable shots, that's exactly what they'll do.

I don't buy the resume thing because then you couldn't argue Lebron was one of the best players in the NBA at the beginning of last year. Chris Paul has turned Tyson Chandler into a very good basketball player.

Let me present you with this question. If Lebron is a better passer than Chris Paul, why is it that when people have gone to New Orleans they have gotten better, but when players have gone to Cleveland they have remained where they were when they got there, or gotten worse.

Examples: Larry Hughes (Gets worse), Wally (Gets worse), Delonte (Stays about the same), Damon Jones (Gets worse), and Joe Smith (Gets worse).

The thing that is holding Lebron back from being an all-time great, or even the best in the league now, is not only is inability to shut the door on games; it is his inability to make his teammates better. I think Damon Jones is the best example by far. He leads the league in 3's on the Heat and then he goes to Cleveland and disappears. To say that Chris Paul is not as good of a passer as Lebron, and Kobe, is outrageous. Why because the media talks about their court vision. A great passer makes the simple passes and doesn't turn the ball over. No one in the league, that starts, has a better assist to turnover ratio than CP3.

Great players resurrect "dead" careers, make average players into good players, and make everyone on their team better than their true abilities. CP3 does that. Lebron doesn't and before this year Kobe didn't. I still think Kobe is the best but after Shaq left he stopped doing that; now he's learned. Deron Williams has not accomplished nearly as much as CP3 has with a team that was given no chance.
 

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Your argument on assists being pointless is outrageous. I always compare the argument of making a great pass and missing, and making an easy pass and making it to baseball.

In baseball you'll hit balls hard that are caught and you'll hit balls soft that aren't caught, but over time the numbers will show your true abilities to hit the ball hard.

It is similar with assists. If you continually set your teammates up to make shots that are very makable the numbers will return to the mean. Yeah there will be games in which you get lucky and you'll get games when you're unlucky but over a season if you set your teammates up to make makable shots, that's exactly what they'll do.

I don't buy the resume thing because then you couldn't argue Lebron was one of the best players in the NBA at the beginning of last year. Chris Paul has turned Tyson Chandler into a very good basketball player.

Let me present you with this question. If Lebron is a better passer than Chris Paul, why is it that when people have gone to New Orleans they have gotten better, but when players have gone to Cleveland they have remained where they were when they got there, or gotten worse.

Examples: Larry Hughes (Gets worse), Wally (Gets worse), Delonte (Stays about the same), Damon Jones (Gets worse), and Joe Smith (Gets worse).

The thing that is holding Lebron back from being an all-time great, or even the best in the league now, is not only is inability to shut the door on games; it is his inability to make his teammates better. I think Damon Jones is the best example by far. He leads the league in 3's on the Heat and then he goes to Cleveland and disappears. To say that Chris Paul is not as good of a passer as Lebron, and Kobe, is outrageous. Why because the media talks about their court vision. A great passer makes the simple passes and doesn't turn the ball over. No one in the league, that starts, has a better assist to turnover ratio than CP3.

Great players resurrect "dead" careers, make average players into good players, and make everyone on their team better than their true abilities. CP3 does that. Lebron doesn't and before this year Kobe didn't. I still think Kobe is the best but after Shaq left he stopped doing that; now he's learned. Deron Williams has not accomplished nearly as much as CP3 has with a team that was given no chance.

You're nuts. What has Cp3 accomplished? There is not a statistic anywhere that will convince me that Kobe and Lebron aren't better passers than Paul
 

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Not sure how the better passer is even. It in fact isn't even close. Passing and ball handling Paul blows him away. Paul averaged 11.6 APG to 2.5 turnovers. D Will averaged 10.5 and 3.4. Passing and dribbling I don't think they're in the same class. D Will is a bigger body but he is shockingly a worse defender. Chris Paul led the league in steals, and while they may not indicate how good of a defender you are it is one of the manners you judge a defender by. Chris Paul is better defender. Deron Williams gets blown away by quicker guards on a consistent basis. The head to head doesn't make sense because the Jazz have been good for longer than NO.

I'll give you that he is a better shooter right now, but the gap is closing quickly. CP3 improved his 3 point shooting drastically this season and shot 5% higher from the field which is another drastic difference. By next year I wouldn't be surprised if CP3 shot a higher percentage from the line, field, and behind the arc.

To say Deron Williams is better than Chris Paul is a stretch to say the least. Chris Paul is the best PG in the game and there clearly is a gap between him and the number two. Similar to Kobe being the best and there being a gap between Kobe and and the second best. Not saying Deron isn't a great player but he is not in Chris Paul's class.

stop while you're ahead - it's futile with someone as stubborn as a donkey. from the same dude who thinks that steve nash is as good as CP3 and kobe is 10x better than CP3. absurdity.
 

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stop while you're ahead - it's futile with someone as stubborn as a donkey. from the same dude who thinks that steve nash is as good as CP3 and kobe is 10x better than CP3. absurdity.


You got it wrong. Steve Nash (was) better than CP3.
 

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You're nuts. What has Cp3 accomplished? There is not a statistic anywhere that will convince me that Kobe and Lebron aren't better passers than Paul

Ok well then you'll never change your opinion. Since Kobe, Lebron and Chris Paul tend to have the ball in their hands for the majority of the game I'd like to think the guy who gets the most assists, tends to be the best passer because he finds the open guy more often than not.

It's not all about stats, and I do understand that, but since him and Lebron basically play PG for their teams I'd say the guy who finds the open guy more would get more assists and that's CP3. Let me add that Lebron has better outside shooters on his team and is a driver so he should be able to get the assists. I respect your opinion but it clearly will never change. CP3 is the best passer in the league because he racks up assists (meaning he fines the open man) and he limits his turnovers to an unreal number (meaning he doesn't make bad passes). You can always make the great pass but if you make a lot of bad passes it doesn't matter.
 

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Paul sure didn't "lead" tonight. Parker matching him point for point and assist for assist. as long as Paul doesn't play defense his incredible offense is negated. If I had never seen a basketball game in my life before tonight I would think Parker was the MVP candidate.

Have been saying all playoffs, the Hornets go as PEJA goes.
 

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