A statistical analysis of bankroll management. Two year old thread.

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I'm eager to get college football and basketball underway, and I've been feeling a little restless, so I decided to take a little deeper look at the way we bet on games. I've heard countless times that the reason that 90%+ of sports bettors lose is because of improper bankroll management. I've also heard varying theories of how much of your roll a "unit" should be. So I decided to do the math for myself and share it with all of you. Hope this helps!

I started with the simple scenario of assuming that every game I bet has the same probability of winning, no single play is stronger than another. Also, at this point we will assume there is no juice. Each game is Bet $X to win $X. If I bet X percent of my roll on each game, and continue to adjust my wager (this is a fluid model, allowing for the changing size of the bankroll with each play), after 100 bets I have multiplied my bankroll by: Y = ((1+X)^A)*((1-X)^B)
where X is the percentage of my bankroll bet on each play,
A is my number of wins, B is my number of losses, and A+B=100.

Now assume that I know I will hit 56 of these 100 bets. What percentage of my bankroll should I bet on each game? Some people might argue that I should bet a large portion of the roll, perhaps 50%, so each bet is +EV. Others might say that minimizing risk of ruin is important, so only bet about 1% (remember, however, that this is a fluid model, which essentially eliminates ROR). But both of these notions are actually costing the bettor value. When we model the equation using differential calculus (or a handy graphing calculator :) we see that the function maximizes at X = .12 . Therefore, the optimal percentage of my roll to bet, under these circumstances, is 12% on each game. If you don't believe it, try it! Using the above equation (with A=56 and B=44) try to find a value for X that gives a better return than .12 does (which would multiply my bankroll by roughly 2.06).

Now it's time to look at a more practical application, which includes juice and a varying number of games selected. For the math in this part, I always assumed juice was 10% (since I bet with a local this all I can get). Our new growth formula becomes:

Y = ((1+X)^u)*((1-(1.1X))^w)
where X is, again, the % of your roll being bet each game. u is the percentage of games you win, w is the percentage of games you lose, Y is the amount your initial stake will be multiplied by, and u+w = 100.

Using the same fundamentals as earlier, I calculated the following optimal bet chart based on the percentage of wagers you anticipate hitting:

% of wagers hit % of bankroll wagered per play Y value after 100 bets
53 1.182 1.0077
54 3.09 1.0540
55 5.00 1.1477
56 6.909 1.3013
57 8.82 1.5366
58 10.73 1.8899
59 12.64 2.4220
60 14.55 3.2347

Notice that with each % of wagers hit, the % of your bankroll wagered goes up linearly but the impact it has on your initial stake rises exponentially!

Here is a final chart, which I found eye-opening. This is the results of using an optimal betting system for 1,000 bets.

% of wagers hit % of bankroll wagered per play Y value after 1000 bets
56 6.909 13.9272
58 10.73 581.4
60 14.55 125,438.37

To explain, this means that if you were to hit 560 of your next 1000 wagers, and for each wager you bet 6.909% of your bankroll, you would multiply your stake by nearly 14! And if you were able to have no problems with credit limits, and somehow hit 600 of your next 1000 wagers, by betting 14.55% of your role per play you could turn $100 into over $12 million!!

Things I noticed by doing this analysis:
1) Juice cuts a 56% bettor's profits by nearly 70%.
2) It is VERY important to keep track of your bets and know exactly what percentage you hit. This can affect the exponential growth of your starting stake.
3) If you like certain plays more than others, adjust your bet for those particular plays according to the chance that they will hit.
4) It is very important to keep a fluid model of growth!
5) There are no fancy betting systems that can overcome being a substandard bettor. If you can't hit 52.4% of your games, you can not win in the long run.

Hope this helps! Good luck this year everyone!
 

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In today's market, you should very rarely lay more than -05. This will take care of many of the mistakes people make with their money management. Good Luck
 

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Also, if a person never attempted to buy worthless pts, he would be way ahead of the game. When I read on this forum, "I hate to get beat by the hook," I wanna scream!
 

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Selling .5 to 1.5 pts is smart business....

Never buy points.

If it was advantageous to the Player, the Books would not offer it
 

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Good info here...One of the best posts I've seen on this site in my time here by far...I think we would all be better served to try to be as analytical as Timo...

My goal for NFL is about 55-56% (Was like 60% when I started but I have to admit the lines are very tight now and I think 55-58% is more feasible, although I only bet about 50 games a year as I'm pretty picky with what I bet) I was a documented 18-13 +6-7 units or so on this site last year but then I realized nobody cared about my picks so I just stopped posting.


How tight are HT lines on Matchbook for NFL? Just curious...

I've pretty much realized trying to beat 52.4% isnt worth my time (probably isn't worth very many peoples time to be honest) so I won't bet unless I get -105 or better from now on. Hoping to pay between 50.5-51.2% juice at the most with matchbook and other -105 outlets. So what this model basically says is that I should be betting about 8-9% of my BR since if I'm paying -105 on average then readjust accordingly after every bet? If there are multiple bets at once, do you just do them all the same?

Thanks for the info...
 

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In today's market, you should very rarely lay more than -05. This will take care of many of the mistakes people make with their money management. Good Luck

Agreed, but most of my betting is done through a local, so I used -10 for practical purposes. I've been lucky enough to do pretty well for my first 2 years of betting, and I'm going to be putting money into 5dimes for the upcoming year. Do you recommend any other books for reduced juice?

Also, I can do the math for bet optimization at -05 if you'd like.
 

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Good info here...One of the best posts I've seen on this site in my time here by far...I think we would all be better served to try to be as analytical as Timo...

My goal for NFL is about 55-56% (Was like 60% when I started but I have to admit the lines are very tight now and I think 55-58% is more feasible, although I only bet about 50 games a year as I'm pretty picky with what I bet) I was a documented 18-13 +6-7 units or so on this site last year but then I realized nobody cared about my picks so I just stopped posting.


How tight are HT lines on Matchbook for NFL? Just curious...

I've pretty much realized trying to beat 52.4% isnt worth my time (probably isn't worth very many peoples time to be honest) so I won't bet unless I get -105 or better from now on. Hoping to pay between 50.5-51.2% juice at the most with matchbook and other -105 outlets. So what this model basically says is that I should be betting about 8-9% of my BR since if I'm paying -105 on average then readjust accordingly after every bet? If there are multiple bets at once, do you just do them all the same?

Thanks for the info...

PatsFan, I'm glad I can help, even an AFC rival like yourself :) Basically all I've done in this thread is show the importance of using the Kelly criterion staking plan. Multiple bets can be tricky. You certainly don't want to use the same percentage on each bet that you would for a single bet, because you greatly increase your Risk of Ruin. As an extreme example, imagine you wanted to bet 20 games, but the optimization chart calls for a 6% bet on each. You certainly can't bet more than your bankroll! The math is fairly complicated, but I found this link (Thanks Ganchrow!) to an applet that gives bet-sizing based on number of games and perceived edge. http://www.sbrforum.com/Betting+Tools/Kelly+Calculator.aspx

Also, if you're getting -105 juice and perceive a 56% edge (which would be fantastic!) your optimum bet would be 9.33% of your roll. Good luck!
 

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Agreed, but most of my betting is done through a local, so I used -10 for practical purposes. I've been lucky enough to do pretty well for my first 2 years of betting, and I'm going to be putting money into 5dimes for the upcoming year. Do you recommend any other books for reduced juice?

Also, I can do the math for bet optimization at -05 if you'd like.
tim, I figured out the math part of sports wagering many years ago. I have been fortunate over the years to pick the brains of some very smart people. The psycholgy of sports wagering is just as important as the math part. You are never going to be successful until you have numerous outs. Line shopping and reduced vig are the two biggest keys to the puzzle. Anyone can pick some winners! Good Luck
 

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In a nutshell. gambling math says wager 1%-2% of your bankroll. Max.

Preferably 1%.

Thats the math of binomial distribution.

The laws of math do not lie.

Most gamblers wil not accept that...but thats what you have to do to protect your bankroll...and thats assuming you have a 57%ATS advantage.

Most gamblers tend to exaggerate to the extreme what their advantage might be.
 

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In a nutshell. gambling math says wager 1%-2% of your bankroll. Max.

Preferably 1%.

Thats the math of binomial distribution.

The laws of math do not lie.

Most gamblers wil not accept that...but thats what you have to do to protect your bankroll...and thats assuming you have a 57%ATS advantage.

Most gamblers tend to exaggerate to the extreme what their advantage might be.

I guess this is the line of thinking I was trying to discourage. What is "gambling math"? By keeping a fluid model, you eliminate ROR. So if you think you are a 57% bettor over time, bet accordingly. I've heard the 1% and I used to think that way, but it is not maximizing value. You're correct that the laws of math don't lie. And that same math shows us exactly what to bet if we know our percentages...
 

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I guess this is the line of thinking I was trying to discourage. What is "gambling math"? By keeping a fluid model, you eliminate ROR. So if you think you are a 57% bettor over time, bet accordingly. I've heard the 1% and I used to think that way, but it is not maximizing value. You're correct that the laws of math don't lie. And that same math shows us exactly what to bet if we know our percentages...

Binomial distribution is the math a gambler better understand.
 

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I've heard countless times that the reason that 90%+ of sports bettors lose is because of improper bankroll management.

Most lose because they are -ev bettors.

I've heard the 1% and I used to think that way, but it is not maximizing value

It's not necessarily optimal, but this is why it's generally good advice:

1. Most people are losing bettors, so the smaller their wagers the better.
2. Even if they do win, their edge may not be large enough to allow for 2-3% wagers.
3. Most don't have the tolerance to deal with the swings that occur when betting 2%+ of your bankroll.

So if you think you are a 57% bettor over time

Almost certainly over a statistically small sample.
 

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98% of the bettors here are under 57 % ATS...and the other 1% are liars.
 

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Most lose because they are -ev bettors.



It's not necessarily optimal, but this is why it's generally good advice:

1. Most people are losing bettors, so the smaller their wagers the better.
2. Even if they do win, their edge may not be large enough to allow for 2-3% wagers.
3. Most don't have the tolerance to deal with the swings that occur when betting 2%+ of your bankroll.



Almost certainly over a statistically small sample.


You continue to talk about "the math" and the entire point of my posts has been to show why the math points to this method of betting. Anything less than this method is not optimal EV. That should be all that matters. But I'll address your points individually.

1. I completely agree, and if you plug in a 48% or even a 51% bettor into the formula, the numbers say you should bet 0. What we aim to do is advantage gambling, and we need to give ourselves the biggest advantage possible by betting the right way.

2. I think you're forgetting that this is a dynamic model. If you are a 55% capper, it is OK to have 20 game losing streaks. You are only betting a certain percentage of your current roll, which takes away the ROR.

3. I agree that discipline is important. This is only aimed at people who can hit enough winners to beat the juice. Then they simply need to plug in numbers to determine what is optimal.


I respect everything you're saying, and I feel qualified to talk about this from a statistical standpoint. I feel like the ability to tolerate fluctuations within a binomial distribution is one of this method's strongpoints. No matter what order you record the certain percentage, your returns will always be the same. So you will make the same amount if you have a seemingly random dist. of wins and losses and end up with a 550-450 record as you would if you won your first 550 games and lost the next 450.

I'll be out for a while but I'll check back soon. Good luck on all your plays tonight!
 

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Mr J, you are right about everything you said besides the Kelly part I think.

However, you missed the whole point of the thread.

We know that most bettors are -EV and improper BR management isn't why they lose. We also know that most don't have the discipline and all of that stuff. The point Timo is trying to make is that if you DO have the discipline and you are a 53-57% bettor (and I agree, 99.9% of this forum or any forum isn't 57%) then his way is the optimal way to bet (although you want a margin of safety in estimating your edge as well, which is why half kelly is popular)
 

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I barely passed business statistics, and I wager on sports for a living. Math can't find you -05 outs. Good Luck
 

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I'll be back later as well...I like these kind of discussions.

And yes...I misunderstood the point of this thread. Good stuff!

Cya later I hope.
 

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Ok...after reading through the thread...I'm back to my original thoughts.

I think your expectation of winning is much too high...here is why.

You must consider binomial distribution in your bankroll management.

This is the best article I have ever found that explains why anything over 2% is probably too much.

Like I said...the math doesn't lie. Your wagers amounts are much too high...the math says you will lose your bankroll...sooner or later.

Hope this helps.

=======================
Even if you have a long term advantage against pointspreads and over-under lines, you will go broke with the use of faulty money management. For our purposes in this article, we'll say you have a 57.5% winning expectation on each and every bet. (Of course, the actual winning expectation is rarely the same on any two bets, - but our record shows we expect between 54%-58% over the long term.)
...So, how many winners can you expect in the next, say, 21 bets? Well, 57.5% of 21 is 12.075, so the answer figures to be 12, producing a win-loss record of 12-9.
Trouble is, a record of 12-9 is not the only thing that can happen. There are several other results that are also very likely, and some of these other results are not good. The graph below shows the binomial distribution of all the possible outcomes.


pict0.gif


Notice that although a result of 12-9 is the most likely of all outcomes, a result of precisely 12-9 will occur only slightly more than 17% of the time. That's only about one time in six. In real life, you can figure on a record of something other than 12-9 about 5 out of 6 times.
With a 57.5% expectation-per-bet, you can plan on making any profit at all only about 60% of the time over your next 21 bets. In 4 out of 10 cases, you can expect to win less than twelve out of 21 bets. Even with a 57.5% winning expectation on every bet, you must be aware that it is just as easy to go 7-14 (or worse!) as it is to go 17-4 or better. Once in about 8 times you can expect to lose 13 or more of your next 21 bets

http://www.professionalgambler.com/binomial.html
 

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Ok...after reading through the thread...I'm back to my original thoughts.

I think your expectation of winning is much too high...here is why.

You must consider binomial distribution in your bankroll management.

This is the best article I have ever found that explains why anything over 2% is probably too much.

Like I said...the math doesn't lie. Your wagers amounts are much too high...the math says you will lose your bankroll...sooner or later.

Hope this helps.

=======================
Even if you have a long term advantage against pointspreads and over-under lines, you will go broke with the use of faulty money management. For our purposes in this article, we'll say you have a 57.5% winning expectation on each and every bet. (Of course, the actual winning expectation is rarely the same on any two bets, - but our record shows we expect between 54%-58% over the long term.)
...So, how many winners can you expect in the next, say, 21 bets? Well, 57.5% of 21 is 12.075, so the answer figures to be 12, producing a win-loss record of 12-9.
Trouble is, a record of 12-9 is not the only thing that can happen. There are several other results that are also very likely, and some of these other results are not good. The graph below shows the binomial distribution of all the possible outcomes.

pict0.gif

Notice that although a result of 12-9 is the most likely of all outcomes, a result of precisely 12-9 will occur only slightly more than 17% of the time. That's only about one time in six. In real life, you can figure on a record of something other than 12-9 about 5 out of 6 times.
With a 57.5% expectation-per-bet, you can plan on making any profit at all only about 60% of the time over your next 21 bets. In 4 out of 10 cases, you can expect to win less than twelve out of 21 bets. Even with a 57.5% winning expectation on every bet, you must be aware that it is just as easy to go 7-14 (or worse!) as it is to go 17-4 or better. Once in about 8 times you can expect to lose 13 or more of your next 21 bets

http://www.professionalgambler.com/binomial.html


Mr. MJ, I've seen this article numerous times, and although I like the website the article does not get to the core of the Kelly Betting criterion. As stated earlier, the order doesn't matter. If you are a 55% bettor, it does not matter if you lose 100 games in a row, as long as you hit at 55% over the long run. This is a dynamic model, and as you lose your bets will become smaller, but remain the same percentage of your bankroll.

Again, I understand that there is extremely high variance in gambling. I know that a 60% bettor will occasionally lose 15 bets in a row. But if you know what % you hit in the long run, it does not matter if you lose 5,000 games in a row! If you are betting the optimal percentage of your bankroll, and over time you hit the percentage that you expect (as we know will happen by the law of averages), this is the best way to bet.
 

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How can you possibly know what percentage of bets you will hit in the future?

Past performance is never a guarantee of future performance...especially in sports wagering.

I'm not trying to bust balls...but I must still be missing something.

How can you say it doesn't matter if you lose 55 bets in a row? You will lose your bankroll.
 

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