What to do with Glavine, Smoltz?
By David O'Brien | Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 01:35 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
New York _ Just got to my Manhattan hotel, turned on ESPN and listening to Tim Kurkijian discussing Tom Glavine’s legacy and whether he thinks this will be the last year for all of the Big Three, thus enabling them to possibly go into the Hall of Fame together.
Personally, I don’t see it happening - all three retiring this year, that is. I think Greg Maddux will come back to pitch in 2009 — after he makes a difference for the Dodgers in their playoff big these next six weeks, count on it — and John Smoltz probably won’t make a decision until at least spring training, when he sees how that shoulder holds up.
(Don’t know if I’ve mentioned this, but I’ve heard from reliable people that Smoltz’s labrum was as bad or worse than any Dr. James Andrews had ever seen in a pitcher’s shoulder so much wear and tear. Only underscores the toughness and competitiveness of the Bearded Icon, that he was able to still pitch and throw as hard as he did early this season with all the damage that was in there.)
If I had to guess, I’d say Smoltz won’t be able to make it back from this surgery to pitch again, at least not for any significant stretch (I’d never put it past him to be able to come back and pitch a game or two; we’ll see).
Which brings us to Glavine. I really don’t have a gut feeling on what to expect tomorrow when he’s examined by Andrews on Wednesday. I do know that from what I’ve seen over the years, more often than not it’s the worst-case scenario when a pitcher goes to have his elbow or shoulder examined.
If he needs Tommy John surgery to pitch again, he’s said he would retire and not have the surgery. If it’s “only” a cleaning-up of scar tissue around the flexor tendon, a ‘scope procedure that would require only 4-5 months of rehab before he could probably pitch again, he’s probably going to try to pitch — provided the Braves want him back.
Again, I’ve not heard anything from Braves officials to indicate which way they’d lean on that one. It’d be a very difficult decision, I’d imagine, simply because you’d want to treat the man with the dignity that his career with the Braves warrants, and not just tell him, “No, we don’t want you back.”
But at the same time, the Braves have to make decisions that will get this team back to the postseason, and there’s no way they can go into next season counting on either Glavine and/or Smoltz, two 40-somethings who’d be coming back from surgery (assuming Glavine requires a procedure of some kind).
Ideally, ownership/management would see a way to have them back but do so while not counting on them to make contributions. In other words, give each of them a fair contract, perhaps one that has an increased salary if they make the major league roster at any point in the season.
But — and here’s the important part — they (ownership/management) would, ideally, be willing to go over their proposed budget by whatever amount it would take to sign Smoltz and/or Glavine. In other words, if it’s $5 mill, or $7 mill (just tossing out figures), or whatever if they make the major league roster, then that’s on top of the payroll you’re planning to spend to formulate next year’s roster.
That’s the only way to do it, if you’re serious both about putting together a contending team and also treating two franchise icons the way they should be treated.
Make it clear to people — fans, media, etc. — that ownership has agreed to spend however much more to sign those two, that way you wouldn’t have critics saying all year, if it doesn’t work out either either, how you wasted money you could have spent to fill other needs. Make it clear this was not money that was going to be spent otherwise on payroll, that you made an exception to accommodate two special pitchers.
Then they can rehab and do what it takes to get back, and if one or both makes it back, it’s a potential huge bonus for your team during the season. And if they don’t, well, you look good (or should, to any reasonable person) for offering fair — not excessive, but fair — contracts to a couple of aging pitchers not far removed from quality performances, who wanted badly to try to continue pitching and try to end their careers on a positive note, both for themselves and the team and manager they were linked to for so long.
Then again, it’s easy for me to spend someone else’s money. Just trying to help out, though. Gotta approach this the right way. Too much is at stake next season to count on either of them, if they decide to come back. But you don’t want to look like money’s more important than anything else when it comes to a couple of guys who were so instrumental in your franchise’s run of success.
Speaking of success…. These Braves sure ain’t having much these days. At all.
While I expected things to get ugly once they waved the white flag and traded away Teixeira, I didn’t quite envision this level of ineptitude and poor performance.
The bullpen’s worn out and showing it. The starters are faltering more often than not. The position players are forgetting game situations and acting as though there’s nothing to play for in many instances.
(And every one of them has plenty to play for, or should, beyond simple pride of being a professional. I mean, how many of these guys are either approaching arbitration, free agency, or fighting for jobs for next season? Most of them fit one of those categories. But you wouldn’t know it from watching lately.)
Anyway, the pitching: They kept a depleted staff together with baling wire for half a season, and now it’s coming apart.
The Braves, after posting the second-best ERA (3.69) in the league before the All-Star break, have a league-worst 5.93 ERA since the break. I mean league-worst by a mile, too - they’re more than half a run higher than the Reds’ 15th-rated 5.25 ERA since the break, or the Nationals’ 5.05 — and those are two teams that are a combined 17-41 since the All-Star break.
The Brave are 11-19 since the break, and seemingly getting worse by the week.
Their decline began well before the trade deadline, of course. They are 24-40 since June 6, including a staggering 9-23 with a 5.48 ERA at home during that stretch.
They’ve hit .252 and averaged 3.5 runs per game at home in that span, and the Braves have won consecutive games in a homestand at Turner Field just once during that period.
They scored just 22 runs during the 1-6 homestand that ended Monday, and get this: Half of those runs came in one win against the Giants, and seven came in an 11-7 loss to the Cubs. The Braves totaled just four runs in the other five games on the homestand. Astonishing.
They are 3-13 with a 6.69 ERA at home since July 19, and went without a home run in 11 of those 16 games.
Throw in the loss at Arizona to end the last trip, and the Braves have lost seven of their past eight games, batting .244 and scoring one or nor runs in five of those eight games.
The Mets, meanwhile, are 6-1 with a 2.32 ERA in their past seven games, averaging nearly six runs per game in that stretch and hitting two homers four times in that stretch.
Talk about two teams headed in opposite directions. This is a case study.
And to think, the Braves won seven of nine against the Mets earlier this season, before things went completely off the tracks for the Bravos.
These are the times that try men’s souls, or something like that.
By David O'Brien | Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 01:35 PM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
New York _ Just got to my Manhattan hotel, turned on ESPN and listening to Tim Kurkijian discussing Tom Glavine’s legacy and whether he thinks this will be the last year for all of the Big Three, thus enabling them to possibly go into the Hall of Fame together.
Personally, I don’t see it happening - all three retiring this year, that is. I think Greg Maddux will come back to pitch in 2009 — after he makes a difference for the Dodgers in their playoff big these next six weeks, count on it — and John Smoltz probably won’t make a decision until at least spring training, when he sees how that shoulder holds up.
(Don’t know if I’ve mentioned this, but I’ve heard from reliable people that Smoltz’s labrum was as bad or worse than any Dr. James Andrews had ever seen in a pitcher’s shoulder so much wear and tear. Only underscores the toughness and competitiveness of the Bearded Icon, that he was able to still pitch and throw as hard as he did early this season with all the damage that was in there.)
If I had to guess, I’d say Smoltz won’t be able to make it back from this surgery to pitch again, at least not for any significant stretch (I’d never put it past him to be able to come back and pitch a game or two; we’ll see).
Which brings us to Glavine. I really don’t have a gut feeling on what to expect tomorrow when he’s examined by Andrews on Wednesday. I do know that from what I’ve seen over the years, more often than not it’s the worst-case scenario when a pitcher goes to have his elbow or shoulder examined.
If he needs Tommy John surgery to pitch again, he’s said he would retire and not have the surgery. If it’s “only” a cleaning-up of scar tissue around the flexor tendon, a ‘scope procedure that would require only 4-5 months of rehab before he could probably pitch again, he’s probably going to try to pitch — provided the Braves want him back.
Again, I’ve not heard anything from Braves officials to indicate which way they’d lean on that one. It’d be a very difficult decision, I’d imagine, simply because you’d want to treat the man with the dignity that his career with the Braves warrants, and not just tell him, “No, we don’t want you back.”
But at the same time, the Braves have to make decisions that will get this team back to the postseason, and there’s no way they can go into next season counting on either Glavine and/or Smoltz, two 40-somethings who’d be coming back from surgery (assuming Glavine requires a procedure of some kind).
Ideally, ownership/management would see a way to have them back but do so while not counting on them to make contributions. In other words, give each of them a fair contract, perhaps one that has an increased salary if they make the major league roster at any point in the season.
But — and here’s the important part — they (ownership/management) would, ideally, be willing to go over their proposed budget by whatever amount it would take to sign Smoltz and/or Glavine. In other words, if it’s $5 mill, or $7 mill (just tossing out figures), or whatever if they make the major league roster, then that’s on top of the payroll you’re planning to spend to formulate next year’s roster.
That’s the only way to do it, if you’re serious both about putting together a contending team and also treating two franchise icons the way they should be treated.
Make it clear to people — fans, media, etc. — that ownership has agreed to spend however much more to sign those two, that way you wouldn’t have critics saying all year, if it doesn’t work out either either, how you wasted money you could have spent to fill other needs. Make it clear this was not money that was going to be spent otherwise on payroll, that you made an exception to accommodate two special pitchers.
Then they can rehab and do what it takes to get back, and if one or both makes it back, it’s a potential huge bonus for your team during the season. And if they don’t, well, you look good (or should, to any reasonable person) for offering fair — not excessive, but fair — contracts to a couple of aging pitchers not far removed from quality performances, who wanted badly to try to continue pitching and try to end their careers on a positive note, both for themselves and the team and manager they were linked to for so long.
Then again, it’s easy for me to spend someone else’s money. Just trying to help out, though. Gotta approach this the right way. Too much is at stake next season to count on either of them, if they decide to come back. But you don’t want to look like money’s more important than anything else when it comes to a couple of guys who were so instrumental in your franchise’s run of success.
Speaking of success…. These Braves sure ain’t having much these days. At all.
While I expected things to get ugly once they waved the white flag and traded away Teixeira, I didn’t quite envision this level of ineptitude and poor performance.
The bullpen’s worn out and showing it. The starters are faltering more often than not. The position players are forgetting game situations and acting as though there’s nothing to play for in many instances.
(And every one of them has plenty to play for, or should, beyond simple pride of being a professional. I mean, how many of these guys are either approaching arbitration, free agency, or fighting for jobs for next season? Most of them fit one of those categories. But you wouldn’t know it from watching lately.)
Anyway, the pitching: They kept a depleted staff together with baling wire for half a season, and now it’s coming apart.
The Braves, after posting the second-best ERA (3.69) in the league before the All-Star break, have a league-worst 5.93 ERA since the break. I mean league-worst by a mile, too - they’re more than half a run higher than the Reds’ 15th-rated 5.25 ERA since the break, or the Nationals’ 5.05 — and those are two teams that are a combined 17-41 since the All-Star break.
The Brave are 11-19 since the break, and seemingly getting worse by the week.
Their decline began well before the trade deadline, of course. They are 24-40 since June 6, including a staggering 9-23 with a 5.48 ERA at home during that stretch.
They’ve hit .252 and averaged 3.5 runs per game at home in that span, and the Braves have won consecutive games in a homestand at Turner Field just once during that period.
They scored just 22 runs during the 1-6 homestand that ended Monday, and get this: Half of those runs came in one win against the Giants, and seven came in an 11-7 loss to the Cubs. The Braves totaled just four runs in the other five games on the homestand. Astonishing.
They are 3-13 with a 6.69 ERA at home since July 19, and went without a home run in 11 of those 16 games.
Throw in the loss at Arizona to end the last trip, and the Braves have lost seven of their past eight games, batting .244 and scoring one or nor runs in five of those eight games.
The Mets, meanwhile, are 6-1 with a 2.32 ERA in their past seven games, averaging nearly six runs per game in that stretch and hitting two homers four times in that stretch.
Talk about two teams headed in opposite directions. This is a case study.
And to think, the Braves won seven of nine against the Mets earlier this season, before things went completely off the tracks for the Bravos.
These are the times that try men’s souls, or something like that.
