JB Horn, I feel your pain - from long distance.
I'm in Florida since 1997, but am a 37 year native of DFW
Went to inaugaral game of the Little Rangers back in April 1972 as a 12 year old and beginning in 1976 when I got my first car I went on to attend well over 500 games at Arlington Stadium and later The Temple of Baseball before I ever saw a playoff finish.
KRK1030 correctly states the painfully obvious.
That is, the Rangers have always tried to win with an emphasis on bash ball.
Good news may be coming however. The Rays, Twins and Angels all showed this year that teams in the post-roid era no longer need to target 220+ HRs
160-200 is plenty if you've got a pitching staff that can keep an ERA under 4.00 and enough wheels that you can steal 120+ bases. And of course, play strong fundamental defense.
I confess that for about the past five years I've not paid as close attention to the Rangers as in the past so I'm not sure how close they might be to putting such a team into play.
I'm in Florida since 1997, but am a 37 year native of DFW
Went to inaugaral game of the Little Rangers back in April 1972 as a 12 year old and beginning in 1976 when I got my first car I went on to attend well over 500 games at Arlington Stadium and later The Temple of Baseball before I ever saw a playoff finish.
KRK1030 correctly states the painfully obvious.
That is, the Rangers have always tried to win with an emphasis on bash ball.
Good news may be coming however. The Rays, Twins and Angels all showed this year that teams in the post-roid era no longer need to target 220+ HRs
160-200 is plenty if you've got a pitching staff that can keep an ERA under 4.00 and enough wheels that you can steal 120+ bases. And of course, play strong fundamental defense.
I confess that for about the past five years I've not paid as close attention to the Rangers as in the past so I'm not sure how close they might be to putting such a team into play.
Outside of James Shields and Andy Sonnanstine, not one homegrown player on this roster was drafted past the second round (Carl Crawford) and the rest of them were top ten overall picks.
Like the Rays, the Rangers haven't drafted well in the middle rounds and they don't have first overall picks year in/year out to make up for their inability to scout talent.
I guess what this means is.. it's better to be a door mat for ten years than to be a middle of the pack team with really no chance to win it all.
Like the Rays, the Rangers haven't drafted well in the middle rounds and they don't have first overall picks year in/year out to make up for their inability to scout talent.
I guess what this means is.. it's better to be a door mat for ten years than to be a middle of the pack team with really no chance to win it all.
It's because the Rays actually have the talent on their roster. Rangers don't have the pitching, and even their hitting slowed down as the year went on. The Rays probably have the most talented roster in baseball, so this isn't some terrible team making a once in a lifetime run. This team could very well be back in the ALCS next season. Great drafting by this team to get where they are right now.
we see eye to eye on a LOT of things. and youre one of my favorite posters because you are very rational and objective. but i just dont understand your love for the rays. if they win 85 games next year they should be absolutely thrilled. their lineup is mediocre by american league standards and it remains to be seen how they are going to close games in the world series (... and next year as well). their strength is the front end of the rotation, which is outstanding. but once you get past those 3 their team isn't a whole lot different from the torontos and clevelands of the american league. if the rays can play .500 ball next season they should be happy with the direction of their franchise.
I just see a lot of talent on this tampa roster. I realize that most surprising teams that come out of nowhere one year usually fall back to earth next year, much like individual players also (cliff lee anyone?), but this was a team that had talent coming into the year, just not the experience. No one saw this team coming together as quickly as they did, but they're here and I only see them getting better. Their pitching staff is one of the best in the AL, probably only behind Toronto, who I also think could easily make a run for the World Series next year (should have been able to this year). Kazmir, Shields and Garza are only getting better and Jackson and Sonnanstine aren't bad 4 and 5 options, especially when you consider one of those two won't even make the rotation next year as Price will likely be the fourth starter (maybe even the #1 or 2 by the end of the year). That is one dangerous rotation and will give them a chance to win every night. They also play fantastic defense with Longoria, Bartlett, Iwamura, Upton and Crawford. Their lineup may not compare to other AL teams like Boston, Texas, NYY or Chicago, but I think it could be very good. Pena had a much worse year than the one before, but he still hit over 30 HR's and 100 RBI's. Longoria missed a lot of time and still hit 27 HR's and 85 RBI's. Both should hit 30+ HR's and 100+ RBI's, and Longoria might approach 40 HR's next year to go along with a gold glove. Upton also has a ton of potential to be a big time hitter.
I get what you're saying, and I do think it is possible for this team to take a major step back next year, especially since they play in the toughest division in baseball, but I think there's just as good of a chance that they're right back here representing the AL in the WS. It of coarse won't be easy in the East though when you have 4 teams that are expecting to be contenders for the World Series.
Great drafting?
It's not difficult to choose between superstar one and superstar two when you're getting a top pick year in/year out for ten years.
Outside of Shields and Sonnanstine, they've done a very piss poor job at drafting in the middle rounds.
They also have zero international presence.
This team will be a contender for the next 4-5 years without a doubt, but most of all, it will be interesting to see how upper management performs given a completely contrasting manner in which their team is going to be constructed.
As far as next year goes though: They'll almost certainly have to address their bullpen. Sure, it was very good this year, but bullpens are crap shoots and nobody should expect anyone to repeat the year that they had (outside of Wheeler) next season.
It's not difficult to choose between superstar one and superstar two when you're getting a top pick year in/year out for ten years.
Outside of Shields and Sonnanstine, they've done a very piss poor job at drafting in the middle rounds.
They also have zero international presence.
This team will be a contender for the next 4-5 years without a doubt, but most of all, it will be interesting to see how upper management performs given a completely contrasting manner in which their team is going to be constructed.
As far as next year goes though: They'll almost certainly have to address their bullpen. Sure, it was very good this year, but bullpens are crap shoots and nobody should expect anyone to repeat the year that they had (outside of Wheeler) next season.
PRODIGY gets loose with: .if they (The Rays) win 85 games next year they should be absolutely thrilled. their lineup is mediocre by american league standards
SH: Holy Cow
Rays finish fourth in AL for Homeruns; tied for fourth in OBP; their BA was only five points below the league median average; first in stolen bases; third in triples; seventh in OPS
And this was with Upton, CC, Longoria, and and Navarro all below the age of 25.
Upton played most of season with a torn labrum which was finally permited to heal when he sat out 15 games in September....Witness the return to five tool player now that he's fully healthy.
CC missed 50 games and was replaced by the likes of Eric Hinske and Gabe Gross.
Longoria missed 40 games due to late call up and a multi week injury to his wrist which oh by the way seems to have healed just fine.
Bartlett, Longoria and Iwamura all batted over .300 in their respective final 3/4 of season.
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PROD: and it remains to be seen how they are going to close games in the world series (... and next year as well).
SH: A valid observation. In the coming week look for an increased diet of David Price and Ed Jackson coming out of the pen with their 97+ mph heat and movement. And though Balfour had two very dismal outings vs RedSox, he was without question the most filthy relief pitcher in all of baseball in his 58 IP
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P: their strength is the front end of the rotation, which is outstanding. but once you get past those 3
SH: Add Price in the spring and it's four.
And allow Sonnanstine to mature past his current 300 IP in the bigs and you might be surprised ten years from now when he's got 150+ career Wins.
SH: Holy Cow
Rays finish fourth in AL for Homeruns; tied for fourth in OBP; their BA was only five points below the league median average; first in stolen bases; third in triples; seventh in OPS
And this was with Upton, CC, Longoria, and and Navarro all below the age of 25.
Upton played most of season with a torn labrum which was finally permited to heal when he sat out 15 games in September....Witness the return to five tool player now that he's fully healthy.
CC missed 50 games and was replaced by the likes of Eric Hinske and Gabe Gross.
Longoria missed 40 games due to late call up and a multi week injury to his wrist which oh by the way seems to have healed just fine.
Bartlett, Longoria and Iwamura all batted over .300 in their respective final 3/4 of season.
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PROD: and it remains to be seen how they are going to close games in the world series (... and next year as well).
SH: A valid observation. In the coming week look for an increased diet of David Price and Ed Jackson coming out of the pen with their 97+ mph heat and movement. And though Balfour had two very dismal outings vs RedSox, he was without question the most filthy relief pitcher in all of baseball in his 58 IP
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P: their strength is the front end of the rotation, which is outstanding. but once you get past those 3
SH: Add Price in the spring and it's four.
And allow Sonnanstine to mature past his current 300 IP in the bigs and you might be surprised ten years from now when he's got 150+ career Wins.
You've made some very good observations yourself, though perhaps I misunderstood that last reference.
IMHO, Wheeler was at best the fourth best reliever behind Howell, Balfour and Bradford.
Likely a good reminder to us all that it's time to bust out the upcoming FreeAgent list for winter 2008-9
If Rays can nail down a front line lefty RP, I would not be surprised at all to see Maddon continue what has been a gradual slide towards a multi-task bullpen of Balfour, Bradford, Jackson, Wheeler from the right and Howell, the "new lefty" and then even another lefty (Miller is marginal imo).
If the front five stay healthy and make 30+ starts apiece, they'll likely each rack up 200+ IP, leaving lots of flexibility for "LaRussa"-style pitching management
Statistically, Howell Bradford and Balfour all had better seasons.
However, Balfour has been terrible throughout his career besides this season, Howell is a soft tossing loogy who also has been terrible throughout his career, and Bradford has been tossed around the league more times than 5-0 SAT's mother.
Again, bullpens are crapshoots. The only pitcher with any sort of consistency throughout his career is Dan Wheeler.
However, Balfour has been terrible throughout his career besides this season, Howell is a soft tossing loogy who also has been terrible throughout his career, and Bradford has been tossed around the league more times than 5-0 SAT's mother.
Again, bullpens are crapshoots. The only pitcher with any sort of consistency throughout his career is Dan Wheeler.
how was balfour nastier than lidge? from a results stand point, lidge still has not yet blown a save.........
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg4 align=left><TD>IP</TD><TD>W-L</TD><TD>SV</TD><TD>ERA</TD><TD>Ks</TD><TD>BB</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=middle>69.1</TD><TD align=middle>2-0</TD><TD align=middle>41</TD><TD align=middle>1.95</TD><TD align=middle>92</TD><TD align=middle>35</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
from a statistics standpoint, hes got 1.96 era, and average more thna 1 strikeout per inning, and has staggering almost 3-1 k-bb.........
the dude only gave up 15 runs in an ENTIRE SEASON OF CLOSING GAMES.
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg4 align=left><TD>IP</TD><TD>W-L</TD><TD>SV</TD><TD>ERA</TD><TD>Ks</TD><TD>BB</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD align=middle>58.1</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>4</TD><TD align=middle>1.54</TD><TD align=middle>82</TD><TD align=middle>24</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
i stand corrected...balfours numbers are pretty sick
i stand corrected...balfours numbers are pretty sick
