how did I play this wrong??????

pocketrockets · Jul 24, 2009

i think this hand was like inevitable but anyway... i was playing live yesterday at the holdem club costa rica....

MTT $20+$2 total prize pool $2000+

there were like 120 participants and we were down to 10 people... im amongst the chip leaders with around 125k chips... im on the small blind with blinds 3000-6000 with a 500 ante, everyone folds and im against the bb who is the only player who covers me on the table

i have AA on sb and I raise to 18000, he calls

flop is K T 8 rainbow

i check and he fires 20k, i go all in and he turns KT....

no help on 4th or 5th street and i bite the dust terribly...

any way i could have played this different? i thought for a moment he could have a set because he appeared very confident but i ignored my instincts...
should i have folded after his 20k bet or just called? whats the play here??

Earn_Real_Luis · Jul 24, 2009

Even with AA and nothing on the flop I would fold on a 20k raise...

pocketrockets · Jul 24, 2009

you could explain a little bit, the raise is not that big compared to the size of the pot, and is not like that is a really heavy flop, plus im the sb and he's the bb... what can u expect him to have? i actually knew he had the K, he must have, the point here was, did he have KK, KQ, KJ?? KT seemed of the question, i wouldnt call such a raise with offsuited garbage like that

TheRightSide · Jul 24, 2009

Earn_Real_Luis said:
Even with AA and nothing on the flop I would fold on a 20k raise...

Say what??????????????

So a guy making a semi bluff with a straight draw would push you off the pot for 20K.

What about A,K. He would think he was good and you get his money.

Sometimes things happen in poker. Thats the way it goes.

pocketrockets · Jul 24, 2009

see... a far more logical approach for the hand if u ask me... very weird that guy posting that for his first post?

are you the sucker who sucked out on me?

TheRightSide · Jul 24, 2009

LOL Thats what I was thinking.

You have A,A and are going to fold to that flop. NO WAY IN HELL. If someone is going to fold that they should never even play.

pocketrockets · Jul 24, 2009

i guess that makes me feel a little better... i was very crushed emotionally after that beat and ended up taking my frustration on to the cash tables...

i really wanted to win, not 3rd not 2nd, i wanted to be 1st.... i felt like it was mine but anyway... there's always more chances in poker...

most of the times the guy is going to miss the flop with a hand like that so i never should have folded

Brotherwo · Jul 24, 2009

you played it just fine.

just the bad beat flop.

ProPokerPlayer · Jul 24, 2009

To be honest i would have shoved PF...and tried to look like i was scared to death he would call...and hope like hell he had KK.
What u did was fine, you got AA u want all the money in...u got it so u look past the results.
If u ever watch the Tony G vs Ralph P video, thats what he does. He gets him to call with KJ by making him think he wants him to fold. Tony only has A3 but once the chips go in he's got the best hand and its up to the cards after that....or the site if ur online...lol (sorry couldnt resist)

ProPokerPlayer · Jul 24, 2009

I found it....i was wrong Tony had A2..lol

<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5EKO7DzvQKU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5EKO7DzvQKU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

pocketrockets · Jul 24, 2009

of course, now seeing the play in retrospective, i would rather have shoved preflop just to steal the 12k in blinds and antes... i mean... hell i was greedy and i wanted to suck him dry

he was an inexperienced player as far as i could see and he nailed most of his chips with suckouts.... i wanted him out so we could merge the tables finally

oh well.... ill comeback next week

ECS · Jul 25, 2009

Blind, I like the raise, but when you factor in the ante's I think you have to make it bigger. So blinds are at 3000/6000 with 500 antes putting a total of 14k in the pot before the hand even goes. Thats alot of cash, you raising to 18k from the sb but 29k into the pot and the bb has 6 out their. So he has to pay 12k to win 29k. See where I'm going here, with a hand like K10 and a bunch of chips, why wouldn't he call. If he whiffs he just folds, no big deal. If he hits big though, he might get all your chips.

MightyGinseng · Jul 25, 2009

Depends on the guy you are playing against, but I would lead the flop. Checking and giving him a potential free card I don't like at all. His reaction to your flop bet will give you information about his hand as well.

The way it was played, I'm not sure you were laying down AA regardless of what came out on the flop. Tough hand, lots of people bust doing the same thing.

pocketrockets · Jul 25, 2009

ECS I totally agree with your raise theory... I should have make it probably 26k or 32k to go... but the way that kid was playing i bet he would have probably called.... i saw him play suited connectors a lot regardless of the raise, and he we was just against me with position, that's just to tempting for LAG players

festeringZit · Jul 29, 2009

ProPokerPlayer said:
I found it....i was wrong Tony had A2..lol

<object height="525" width="660">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5EKO7DzvQKU&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="525" width="660"></object>

I bust out laughing every time I watch that video clip.

"feel the power baby"

tommyjohn44 · Jul 30, 2009

There were 2 options here.

1) Put in a bigger raise hoping to just scoop the blinds and antes. The problem here is that say you raise to 32k and he still calls (depending on your table presence K 10 is a callable hand if he has the stack to make the call...which he did). Now you've got a pot of 78k and you have 93k left. This means that on the flop if you place even a continuation bet then you're essentially committing yourself to the hand when he comes over the top with K 10.

2) Simply call the BB as if you were just doing so with any 2 cards and set a trap (if you're comfortable doing this). This option gives you the chance to lay it down if there is a scary board. Also, you've kept the pot small enough (17k) that you can fire 10-12k on the flop and if he comes over the top then you can lay it down.

Most importantly, think back to what HE thought you had.

You put in a small raise preflop. To me this screams either A-x, K-x, or small to mid pair. It doesn't cost him much to call (as has already been pointed out) so he does so. Flopping 2 pair here is just about his dream flop. When you check, it further confirms for him that unless you have pocket 8's that you whiffed the flop. When you check raise him all-in, he's either got you dominated (his 2 pair beat your K-x), he has you chasing (your pocket pair now needs to hit a 2 outer to make trips), he's chasing a 4 out full house (an unlikely play as you would be more likely to flat call if you now had a set of 8's), or you both have the same K 10 hand and its a split pot.

If i'm on his side of the table, I look at your move like this:

50% - You've got AK, KJ, or KQ and think your TPTK or TPHK is good
35% - You've got a small (below 10) pocket pair that missed and you're trying to buy the pot
10% - You've got pocket 8's and I'm dead with my 2 pair
5% - You've K 10 as well

So if he breaks it down like that, 85% of the time he's got you dead to hitting a 2 outer, 10% he's trying to hit a 4 outer, and 5% the hand will be a split pot.

When analysizing a hand, make sure to not only look at how you could've played the hand differently...but also look at what information the moves you made provided to your opponent. You can improve your thought process and learn every move in the book...but once you learn to think "what do I think my opponent thinks that I have"...then you can really take your game to the next level as you're now able to fool players on a consistent basis. Make sure to watch Phil Ivey as much as you can from this World Series. He is one of the best at "thinking at Level 4" that has ever played the game.

festeringZit · Jul 30, 2009

tommyjohn44 said:
There were 2 options here.

1) Put in a bigger raise hoping to just scoop the blinds and antes. The problem here is that say you raise to 32k and he still calls (depending on your table presence K 10 is a callable hand if he has the stack to make the call...which he did). Now you've got a pot of 78k and you have 93k left. This means that on the flop if you place even a continuation bet then you're essentially committing yourself to the hand when he comes over the top with K 10.

2) Simply call the BB as if you were just doing so with any 2 cards and set a trap (if you're comfortable doing this). This option gives you the chance to lay it down if there is a scary board. Also, you've kept the pot small enough (17k) that you can fire 10-12k on the flop and if he comes over the top then you can lay it down.

Most importantly, think back to what HE thought you had.

You put in a small raise preflop. To me this screams either A-x, K-x, or small to mid pair. It doesn't cost him much to call (as has already been pointed out) so he does so. Flopping 2 pair here is just about his dream flop. When you check, it further confirms for him that unless you have pocket 8's that you whiffed the flop. When you check raise him all-in, he's either got you dominated (his 2 pair beat your K-x), he has you chasing (your pocket pair now needs to hit a 2 outer to make trips), he's chasing a 4 out full house (an unlikely play as you would be more likely to flat call if you now had a set of 8's), or you both have the same K 10 hand and its a split pot.

If i'm on his side of the table, I look at your move like this:

50% - You've got AK, KJ, or KQ and think your TPTK or TPHK is good
35% - You've got a small (below 10) pocket pair that missed and you're trying to buy the pot
10% - You've got pocket 8's and I'm dead with my 2 pair
5% - You've K 10 as well

So if he breaks it down like that, 85% of the time he's got you dead to hitting a 2 outer, 10% he's trying to hit a 4 outer, and 5% the hand will be a split pot.

When analysizing a hand, make sure to not only look at how you could've played the hand differently...but also look at what information the moves you made provided to your opponent. You can improve your thought process and learn every move in the book...but once you learn to think "what do I think my opponent thinks that I have"...then you can really take your game to the next level as you're now able to fool players on a consistent basis. Make sure to watch Phil Ivey as much as you can from this World Series. He is one of the best at "thinking at Level 4" that has ever played the game.

great analysis. Too many times online I hear people say: "I put him on hand XX"

There is virtually no way you can people on a specific hand, you have to
consider hand ranges, and probability for those ranges.

how did I play this wrong??????

Search

pocketrockets

Banned

Earn_Real_Luis

New member

pocketrockets

Banned

TheRightSide

New member

pocketrockets

Banned

TheRightSide

New member

pocketrockets

Banned

Brotherwo

Maestro

ProPokerPlayer

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar

ProPokerPlayer

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar

pocketrockets

Banned

ECS

Cincinnati: F U Mike Brown

MightyGinseng

New member

pocketrockets

Banned

festeringZit

Member

tommyjohn44

snappin necks & cashin checks

festeringZit

Member

Forum statistics

Share this page