Alomar up for HOF

tooran · Nov 27, 2009

Does he make it? 12 All Star games, 10 Gold Gloves, .300 career AVG, 2,724 hits, 210 HR's, ALCS MVP in 2002, All Star Game MVP in 1998, spit on an umpire, rumoured to have AIDS, lived in the SkyDome Stadium hotel at one point....

HOF?

Also new on the ballot: Fred McGriff (493 HR, tied for 26th), Barry Larkin (12 time all star, .295 career avg) and Edgar Martinez (2 batting titles, 309 HR)

NyMets609 · Nov 27, 2009

honestly dont think he even gets close. was an absolute bust for the Mets. had a nice career b4 than def not HOF type tho.

VIEJODINOSAUR · Nov 27, 2009

Blyleven and Morris should be in...

artiesliver · Nov 27, 2009

IMO, Roberto Alomar is borderline. Was the best 2nd baseman in the AL for a while (yes, before killing his career as many do, with the Mutts...uh, Mets).

tooran · Nov 27, 2009

VIEJO DINOSAUR said:
Blyleven and Morris should be in...

From the carry-over nominees:
McGwire - 583 HR, much shame
Blyleven - 287 wins, 3.31 ERA, 3701 SO
Andre Dawson - 438 HR, 2774 hits, 8 All Star, 8 Gold Glove, 1 MVP, 1977 ROY
Morris - 254-186 record, 4-time AL highest paid pitcher,
Harold Baines - 2866 hits, 384 HR

doubledeuce22 · Nov 27, 2009

alomar is a LOCK to get in. what are you guys smoking?

what else could you ask for out of a SECOND BASEMAN career?

artiesliver · Nov 27, 2009

IMO, Edgar Martinez should not get in, nor should McGriff or Larkin (though Barry Larkin does have a shot).

The HOF, to me, means The Best, someone dominant. Perhaps I have held those HoF'ers I didn't see play in such high regard, that I expect the same of the players I did see play. My favorite player of all-time, Don Mattingly should no longer be on the ballot, nor should Harold Baines, Dave Parker, or Dale Murphy. Temporary dominance and/or longevity should not mean induction to the HOF (I hope you hear that Carlton Fisk, you POS).

That's why when I hear names like Mussina or Pettitte, I shake my head in confusion and disgust. Granted they were great Yankees, but come on....Pedro, Randy Johnson, Maddux, should all get in before them.

As for Blyleven and Morris, I never viewed them as dominant pitchers, just consistently very good and with longevity.

tooran · Nov 27, 2009

artiesliver said:
IMO, Roberto Alomar is borderline. Was the best 2nd baseman in the AL for a while (yes, before killing his career as many do, with the Mutts...uh, Mets).

yes, his career whimpered and died at the end with the Mets. Much like Willie Mays and Mo Vaughn

artiesliver · Nov 27, 2009

McGwire, no PEDs (ie. roids, andro, etc.), he was likely a lock. Unfortunately, what made his HR #'s a "lock" was the PEDs.

artiesliver · Nov 27, 2009

tooran said:
yes, his career whimpered and died at the end with the Mets. Much like Willie Mays and Mo Vaughn

And almost Pedro's...'til his late season resurgence with the Phils.

tooran · Nov 27, 2009

artiesliver said:
Pedro, Randy Johnson, Maddux, should all get in before them.

agree that pedro, randy and maddux should be first ballot.

i like that baseball restricts entry to 2 or 3 per year, unlike NHL, NBA and NFL with their 4 to 6 annual inductees. Makes it more exclusive.

I'm not a big Alomar fan. Thought he was a bit of a jerk. But 17 seasons, 12 All Stars, 10 gold gloves, a couple World Series wins, .300 avg...

Hard to find many better candidates...

artiesliver · Nov 27, 2009

I never consider all star appearances when forming an opinion whether or not a player should be in or not. The all star game is more a popularity contest (though the manager selections do say something about a player).

If someone like Willie Mays or Hank Aaron had 20+ All Star game appearances or not, should not impact whether or not a player of their caliber should get in.

There are periods of time where there are limited choices for all stars in certain positions (such as NL catcher currently), so the same names get to play or are considered.

Doug · Nov 27, 2009

I'm not a big Alomar fan. Thought he was a bit of a jerk. But 17 seasons, 12 All Stars, 10 gold gloves, a couple World Series wins, .300 avg...

Hard to find many better candidates...

well said, I think that is enough.

doubledeuce22 · Nov 27, 2009

With all due respect to Kevin Appier and Robin Ventura, here is the main list of guys on the ballot:

• Roberto Alomar
• Harold Baines
• Bert Blyleven
• Andre Dawson
• Andres Galarraga
• Barry Larkin
• Edgar Martinez
• Don Mattingly
• Fred McGriff
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Dave Parker
• Tim Raines
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell

doubledeuce22 · Nov 27, 2009

I'd vote the following:

Alomar, Dawson, Larkin, Morris

barman · Nov 27, 2009

artiesliver said:
*IMO, Edgar Martinez should not get in, nor should McGriff or Larkin (though Barry Larkin does have a shot).

*As for Blyleven and Morris, I never viewed them as dominant pitchers, just consistently very good and with longevity.

*I agree that none of the men listed in first post are HOF-worthy, nor is Jack Morris

*But holy cow..Bert Blyleven remains one of the most overlooked HOF-worthy pitchers in history

3700+ Ks

and

SIXTY SHUTOUTS

Among active MLB pitchers, the closest to that number is The Big Unit with his 37 shutouts in almost 20 seasons.

tooran · Nov 27, 2009

doubledeuce22 said:
I'd vote the following:

Alomar, Dawson, Larkin, Morris

Dawson needs to get in. He played in that cavernous Olympic Stadium most of his career, and still hit 438 HR. And more career hits than Alomar...

artiesliver · Nov 27, 2009

While we are talking about the HOF, I only want to say that if Don Mattingly had 2 WS titles and Kirby Puckett had 0 WS titles, Donnie Baseball would be in, Kirby would be out.

Player From To Yrs G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS OPS+
+---++-------------------+---------+--+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+
Kirby Puckett 1984-1995 12 1783 7244 1071 2304 414 57 207 1085 450 965 .318 .360 .477 134 76 124
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14 1785 7003 1007 2153 442 20 222 1099 588 444 .307 .358 .471 14 9 127

I would guess that Mattingly rather be coaching w/the LA Dodgers and not in the HOF, than dead and in the HOF. I know I would.

tooran · Nov 27, 2009

barman said:
*I agree that none of the men listed in first post are HOF-worthy, nor is Jack Morris

*But holy cow..Bert Blyleven remains one of the most overlooked HOF-worthy pitchers in history

3700+ Ks

and

SIXTY SHUTOUTS

Among active MLB pitchers, the closest to that number is The Big Unit with his 37 shutouts in almost 20 seasons.

Agree on Blyleven. You make a good case.

tooran · Nov 28, 2009

artiesliver said:
While we are talking about the HOF, I only want to say that if Don Mattingly had 2 WS titles and Kirby Puckett had 0 WS titles, Donnie Baseball would be in, Kirby would be out.

Player From To Yrs G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS OPS+
+---++-------------------+---------+--+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+
Kirby Puckett 1984-1995 12 1783 7244 1071 2304 414 57 207 1085 450 965 .318 .360 .477 134 76 124
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14 1785 7003 1007 2153 442 20 222 1099 588 444 .307 .358 .471 14 9 127

I would guess that Mattingly rather be coaching w/the LA Dodgers and not in the HOF, than dead and in the HOF. I know I would.

I never realized how close their stats were. And they were both gold glovers, puckett 6, mattingly 9. Puckett's WS wins do appear to be the difference.