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Thread: Federer the Best Ever? I Think Not - He's not Even the Best Player of This Era

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  1. #1 Federer the Best Ever? I Think Not - He's not Even the Best Player of This Era 
    Que pasa? festeringZit's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong. But, how can Federer be the best ever as some say
    if he's not even the best player of this era? In a non-team sport Nadal
    holds a huge 14-7 lead in head to head matches. 7 of these have been
    in Grand Slam Finals, of which Nadal has won 5.

    Head-to-head tallies

    The following is a breakdown of their head-to-head results:[9]

    Nadal serves to Federer during the 2006 Wimbledon final



    • All Matches: Nadal 14-7
    • All Finals: Nadal 125
    • Grand Slams: Nadal 62
    • Grand Slam Finals: Nadal 52
    • Best of 5 sets: Nadal 8-3
    • Masters Cup: Federer 20
    • Masters Series: Nadal 73
    • Masters Series Finals: Nadal 63

    [edit] Results on each court surface


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  2. #2  
    Que pasa? festeringZit's Avatar
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    My opinion is that especially in a non-team sport, to be considered the best ever, you'd have to at least be better than the players you played with in your era in head--to-head matches.
    Especially when there are so many storied matches between these two players.
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  3. #3  
    FreeRyanFerguson.com Illini's Avatar
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    Federer much better, not even close. At least until now. Nadal is still young.
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  4. #4  
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    I don't think you can gauge the best ever solely due to head-head records. After all, Andy Murray also has a winning record over Federer. If Nadal stays healthy throughout his career (which is a huge if), he will most likely be remembered as the best player ever, he definitely has the potential.

    That said, in this era Federer has accomplished much more than Nadal, and it isn't even close. Yes, Nadal has the a 14-7 record against Federer. Yet, 12 of those matches have been on red clay, and Nadal is the best ever on clay, hands down (only exception MAYBE could be Bjorn Borg). I don't think any big tennis fans can dispute Nadal is 2x as good on clay as Federer is on grass. However, Federer still has accomplished much more. Not only his 16 grand slams, but his record of 23 consecutive semi-finals in slams in my opinion is the most impressive record in any sport in the modern era.

    Nadal definitely has potential to be the best ever when it's all said and done, but he still has much more to accomplish in his career.
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  5. #5  
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    Who do you consider best ever Fester?
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  6. #6  
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    Definitely the best ever. You don't break the records he did by accident, consistent excellence over an extended period. Rafas been great for a short period and maybe one day he works himself into the conversation but it's still too early and Rafas injury count continues to build. His style is particularly hard on the body and whether he can maintain this form for the long haul remains to be seen. It's like back when Seles was dominating the game on the womans side and she was talked about as possibly the best over cause she was handing Graf losses but it didn't last. Rafa plays a style that drives Fed crazy and it's not a favorable match up for him but you gotta compare overall numbers wins losses titles and not just head to head. Otherwise you could see Rafa having a losing record vs someone like Djokovic (dont know just naming any other player) and then what Djokos the best ever? Also 10-2 on clay courts, you spread those matches over a more neutral ground and not one that favors Rafa and the results would be a little more even.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illini View Post
    Federer much better, not even close. At least until now. Nadal is still young.
    Huh?

    Even though Rafal has kicked his ass 14 out of 21 times, it's not even close? WTF?
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hache Man View Post
    Who do you consider best ever Fester?
    I don't like to compare players from different eras. Laver was the best of his era, Sampras was the best of his era.

    I'd say that Federer was the best of his era, but I hesitate because Nadal has clearly been the better player in head-to-head matches. So, I guess I'd give Federer the title of overall best player
    of his era with an asterisk.

    Sey Hey Kid, Murray has a better record against Federer, but they haven't played each other more than 5 or 6 times.
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  9. #9  
    FreeRyanFerguson.com Illini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
    Huh?

    Even though Rafal has kicked his ass 14 out of 21 times, it's not even close? WTF?
    Not close. Nadal is unbeatable on clay and would win 10 out of 10 matches. Federer dominates on any other surface head to head. Fed is a machine. Nadal not nearly as consistent.
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  10. #10  
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    and more people have beaten nadal than have beaten fed...fed is no doubt the best tennis player ever and his record against the world proves it...everyone is entitled to their opinion though...no matter how much logic and statistics proves it wrong... nadals body wont hold up long enough for him to accomplish all the things fed has
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayray View Post
    and more people have beaten nadal than have beaten fed...fed is no doubt the best tennis player ever and his record against the world proves it...everyone is entitled to their opinion though...no matter how much logic and statistics proves it wrong... nadals body wont hold up long enough for him to accomplish all the things fed has
    How can you call someone the best ever in a non-team head-to-head sport when he's clearly NOT better than Nadal in head-to-head matches? It's not even close?

    Seems ridiculous to me.
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  12. #12  
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    Nadal is the best player on clay, that much you can not argue.
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  13. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
    How can you call someone the best ever in a non-team head-to-head sport when he's clearly NOT better than Nadal in head-to-head matches? It's not even close?

    Seems ridiculous to me.
    Oh, and by the way, I'm no stranger to tennis. I played satellite tournaments for years, and have won my city men's league more than once (city of 100,000 people).
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    Quote Originally Posted by billhill999 View Post
    Nadal is the best player on clay, that much you can not argue.
    The *only* surface that Roger has en edge over Nadal is grass where he holds a 2-1 edge (in head-to-head play).
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  15. #15  
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    Nadal is the greatest ever on a clay court, yeah, Roger is a little better on grass, but that's about it.
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  16. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
    The *only* surface that Roger has en edge over Nadal is grass where he holds a 2-1 edge (in head-to-head play).
    I think you have to look at the entire body of work. The Cards were the best team in baseball in 2004, but lost 70% of the time they played the Cubs. Means nothing. Nadal has a long way to go to be in the same class with Fed and all of his accomplishments.
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  17. #17  
    RX Senior red007's Avatar
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    federer is the best ever. nadal is better on clay. fed's streak of reaching so many consecutive Semis at Grand Slams is the greatest record in the history of all sports imo.
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  18. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illini View Post
    I think you have to look at the entire body of work. The Cards were the best team in baseball in 2004, but lost 70% of the time they played the Cubs. Means nothing. Nadal has a long way to go to be in the same class with Fed and all of his accomplishments.
    The baseball situation you cite is over one season, this situation is over their whole career. It'll be interesting to see where the totals end up over the next 5+ years.
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  19. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by red007 View Post
    federer is the best ever. nadal is better on clay. fed's streak of reaching so many consecutive Semis at Grand Slams is the greatest record in the history of all sports imo.
    I can't find mention of that record on *any* "greatest sports records" lists on the internet.
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  20. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
    How can you call someone the best ever in a non-team head-to-head sport when he's clearly NOT better than Nadal in head-to-head matches? It's not even close?

    Seems ridiculous to me.

    If Nadal and Federer were both 100% healthy and 100% at their best and played 12 matches; 4 on Hard court, 4 on grass, and 4 on clay, i'd personally bet my dollars on Nadal. Hell, I have bet Nadal during their last 5-6 meetings. Nadal's style of play is torture for Federer, and I agree he matches up great vs Federer. That said, I don't see how that makes him an overall better tennis player than Federer. When Marat Safin was playing in his prime and was #1 in the world the one player he couldn't seem to beat was Fabrice Santoro of all people. There are other numerous examples in tennis. As I pointed out earlier, Andy Murray holds a 7-6 record overall against Federer, but I think we can all agree he is no where near Federer's level.

    Literally the only chink in Federer's armor is the fact he struggles against Nadal. Nadal is an amazing player and will end up with a winning record head to head, but in terms of overall accomplishments, Nadal is no where near Federer's level right now.
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  21. #21  
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    I have to agree with Zit here. I don't see how you could be the best ever if you constantly lose to another player in your generation. I know people usually have that one foe but it isn't like Nadal is some average player & he just happens to have Roger's #. He is a great player in his own right & owns Roger.
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  22. #22  
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    Federer needs to find a way to beat Nadal consistently, otherwise he cant be called the best of his generation. Lets hope they meet in the final of Paris and London. Love watching those two play.
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  23. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illini View Post
    Not close. Nadal is unbeatable on clay and would win 10 out of 10 matches. Federer dominates on any other surface head to head. Fed is a machine. Nadal not nearly as consistent.
    Bullshit. They've played 9 times on non-clay surfaces, and Federer barely has more
    wins, 5-4. I'd hardly call that domination.
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  24. #24  
    FreeRyanFerguson.com Illini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by festeringZit View Post
    Bullshit. They've played 9 times on non-clay surfaces, and Federer barely has more
    wins, 5-4. I'd hardly call that domination.
    Small sample size. Fed would destroy him over 100 matches on non-clay.

    On second thought, maybe he wouldn't. It might be close, but Fed still wins more, and Fed has done so much more against other opponents that there is no comparison between the two.
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  25. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illini View Post
    Small sample size. Fed would destroy him over 100 matches on non-clay.

    On second thought, maybe he wouldn't. It might be close, but Fed still wins more, and Fed has done so much more against other opponents that there is no comparison between the two.
    Come on. Your argument is no argument. I'm not saying that Federer hasn't done more so far in his career, I'm saying that the fact that he has been dominated by Nadal head-to-head
    many times in MAJOR matches is a big factor against him being labeled the best player of all time. Your reply is to just dismiss their head-to-head record because of Federer's record against other people.
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