When I was at the Silverton in Vegas last Sept., a guy was at the cashiers cage with a bunch of Silver Strike silver coins. Since only some were from the Silverton, and the rest from the Silverton's former casino, Boomtown, they wouldn't take the Boomtown coins. I was at the TITO machine next to the cage and asked the guy what he had that they wouldn't take. He gave me the 10 silver coins for $10 each which were face value. But since they were an ounce a piece, they were worth more than that. He threw in a $1 Boomtown token. I think they were worth about $13.70 at the time I bought them. If silver has risen since Sept., they should be worth more than that.
I believe that buying silver and especially gold is a great idea but for a couple of reasons they are 'high' right now and especially silver in the last six months or so.
HOWEVER, buy gold coins (with no collector value in my opinion) to hedge against a future crisis (possible and even likely, I believe) with the US Dollar. Don't worry about price of gold or silver. Do a monthly buy called dollar cost averaging of the same dollar amount every month. Put the same dollar amount in each month and don't worry about the ups and downs. Over time you will build a bit of a hedge in case there comes a day that the dollar is shot.
I do this. That's what I got my wife for Christmas...gold coins. Just a couple. But, we tuck them away in a fire-proof floor safe and I hope we never need them. I buy a gold coin each month (most months.)
Silver coins are good too, though.
tulsa
HOWEVER, buy gold coins (with no collector value in my opinion) to hedge against a future crisis (possible and even likely, I believe) with the US Dollar. Don't worry about price of gold or silver. Do a monthly buy called dollar cost averaging of the same dollar amount every month. Put the same dollar amount in each month and don't worry about the ups and downs. Over time you will build a bit of a hedge in case there comes a day that the dollar is shot.
I do this. That's what I got my wife for Christmas...gold coins. Just a couple. But, we tuck them away in a fire-proof floor safe and I hope we never need them. I buy a gold coin each month (most months.)
Silver coins are good too, though.
tulsa
What I think kidman is saying is that silver is used not just as a store of value but also in industry/jewelry, too.
Demand over time for silver should rise and I agree with him. However, though those economic reasons make silver seem more sensible, something about gold over all these years has made silver seem like a bit of weak sister. At the same time, silver is up up up in the last six months...more than gold has been.
tulsa
Demand over time for silver should rise and I agree with him. However, though those economic reasons make silver seem more sensible, something about gold over all these years has made silver seem like a bit of weak sister. At the same time, silver is up up up in the last six months...more than gold has been.
tulsa
tulsa whats your opinion on something like this
http://store.scottsdalesilver.com/p...tacker-Silver-Bar--2-3-Week-Shipping-Estimate
how much have the gold coins been running you and what method do your normally go through to purchase?
http://store.scottsdalesilver.com/p...tacker-Silver-Bar--2-3-Week-Shipping-Estimate
how much have the gold coins been running you and what method do your normally go through to purchase?
Hey man.... I think those silver bars like that are great. I know it sounds silly, but aren't they just nice to look at? They are really pretty! Man... I wish I could buy gold like that (afford to, I mean.)
I actually use ebay (use only highly rated sellers) and also a local pawn shop on occassion. The pawn guy just charged me 145 each for two 1/10 ounce gold coins last week and he got a little more than 'fair' return, but I'm happy to have a local resource. I know the prices are high right now for gold and silver, but I'm not buying more or less than usual and I'm also not buying these for an investment, but mainly for a HEDGE. If these continue to go up then that's great, but I'm just moving dollars to precious metals over time so that if my family needs it, maybe we can buy a pig or a cow some day. I hope not, though.
There is a big difference between buying for investment purposes versus hedging purposes, and I know you know that. I'm thinking that if you get 5% to 7% charge over spot price, then I think that is reasonable. Above all things, do not not not buy those silver certificates of ownership where they sell you silver but 'hold' the actual silver at some bank like Barclay's. There is a growing and I think reasonable concern that many of those certificates of ownership are sold on silver that isn't there. The auditing process of all of those silver certificates is very shady. Also, if things ever collapse...really break down, how hard would it be to go get the silver at some far away bank AND how hard would it be in those possibly tumultuous times for the bank to say, "who are you? no, sorry, due to bank policy, we cannot let anyone in the bank for thirty days" or whatever. They can keep the silver in bad times is what I'm saying.
Anyway, what I'm saying to anyone reading this thread: buy physical silver and gold. Buy from respected sellers and don't pay more than 10% or so in premium over spot price of the metal. Silver rounds and bars...gold coins. Good stuff.
The problem with the bars is that they may be a little large for smaller future transactions. Picture yourself with a silver bar and the guy holding a chicken. Picture yourself with a silver round and the guy holding a chicken. I'm just saying.
I love this topic! What do you think the future holds, Kidman? Are you buying for an investment or are you buying or looking to buy as a possible protection against a collapse in the US dollar?
tulsa
I actually use ebay (use only highly rated sellers) and also a local pawn shop on occassion. The pawn guy just charged me 145 each for two 1/10 ounce gold coins last week and he got a little more than 'fair' return, but I'm happy to have a local resource. I know the prices are high right now for gold and silver, but I'm not buying more or less than usual and I'm also not buying these for an investment, but mainly for a HEDGE. If these continue to go up then that's great, but I'm just moving dollars to precious metals over time so that if my family needs it, maybe we can buy a pig or a cow some day. I hope not, though.
There is a big difference between buying for investment purposes versus hedging purposes, and I know you know that. I'm thinking that if you get 5% to 7% charge over spot price, then I think that is reasonable. Above all things, do not not not buy those silver certificates of ownership where they sell you silver but 'hold' the actual silver at some bank like Barclay's. There is a growing and I think reasonable concern that many of those certificates of ownership are sold on silver that isn't there. The auditing process of all of those silver certificates is very shady. Also, if things ever collapse...really break down, how hard would it be to go get the silver at some far away bank AND how hard would it be in those possibly tumultuous times for the bank to say, "who are you? no, sorry, due to bank policy, we cannot let anyone in the bank for thirty days" or whatever. They can keep the silver in bad times is what I'm saying.
Anyway, what I'm saying to anyone reading this thread: buy physical silver and gold. Buy from respected sellers and don't pay more than 10% or so in premium over spot price of the metal. Silver rounds and bars...gold coins. Good stuff.
The problem with the bars is that they may be a little large for smaller future transactions. Picture yourself with a silver bar and the guy holding a chicken. Picture yourself with a silver round and the guy holding a chicken. I'm just saying.
I love this topic! What do you think the future holds, Kidman? Are you buying for an investment or are you buying or looking to buy as a possible protection against a collapse in the US dollar?
tulsa
if you want to buy gold to buy gold or silver, it is much better to buy electronic
gold/silver ETF's on the NYSE rather than gold/silver coins from a dealer. some of the reasons.
the transaction costs of buying/selling the ETF is much lower. including the ask/bid
differential the cost is about 1.5-2% for the first thousand and significantly lower
%wise for more money. with coins the the transaction costs to buy and sell will run you about
5% with very little reduction in costs for higher volume. it is much easier to buy and sell
ETF's rather than coins. you can get buy or sell at a fair price anytime the market is open and
with the transaction costs this makes it easier to take advantage of market fluctuations.
owning an ETF allows one to use leverage or borrow against it without liquidating the position
if one needs cash quick. also one can borrow against other stocks to buy the ETF. coins
produce no income, they either appreciate or depreciate. with an ETF one can sell options
against their position to produce a very nice income stream without losing any or very
little of the upside gain by dynamically hedging the position. if one wants maximum leverage
then one can buy gold/silver futures from the CBOE in chicago. this basically changes
the investing aspect of this into a NLHE game of all in with huge rewards or total loss
the likely outcomes. not for the faint of heart, the sound of mind, nor the undercapatalized
investor trying to take a shot. hope this helps.
gold/silver ETF's on the NYSE rather than gold/silver coins from a dealer. some of the reasons.
the transaction costs of buying/selling the ETF is much lower. including the ask/bid
differential the cost is about 1.5-2% for the first thousand and significantly lower
%wise for more money. with coins the the transaction costs to buy and sell will run you about
5% with very little reduction in costs for higher volume. it is much easier to buy and sell
ETF's rather than coins. you can get buy or sell at a fair price anytime the market is open and
with the transaction costs this makes it easier to take advantage of market fluctuations.
owning an ETF allows one to use leverage or borrow against it without liquidating the position
if one needs cash quick. also one can borrow against other stocks to buy the ETF. coins
produce no income, they either appreciate or depreciate. with an ETF one can sell options
against their position to produce a very nice income stream without losing any or very
little of the upside gain by dynamically hedging the position. if one wants maximum leverage
then one can buy gold/silver futures from the CBOE in chicago. this basically changes
the investing aspect of this into a NLHE game of all in with huge rewards or total loss
the likely outcomes. not for the faint of heart, the sound of mind, nor the undercapatalized
investor trying to take a shot. hope this helps.
I guess a little bit of each tulsa. Just think silver has been getting over looked for a really long time and has great potential whether things turn back up or goes completely south. There is a reason some items have been accepted as form of payment for hundreds of years and it never hurts to diversify.
Well, that is about as succinct as can be. It never hurts to diversify.
By the way...I'm not thinking that we are going to see a collapse of the US dollar this year or next year or even in the next seven years. At some point the US government's behavior will collapse the currency. I am positive that it won't be in the next fifteen. It may not happen for a long, long time. I think it will happen within 40 years.
tulsa
read the sell sell sell thread in the investment forum its the best thread on the rx. its over 800 pages long. if you were fortunate enough to stumble upon it like myself you have done QUITE well for yourself the past several years....
and yes i buy silver and gold bullion regularly and i would NEVER buy the etf's. i want the bullion in my physical possession. yes you pay a premium but you also get it on the backend when you decide to sell on eBay as a reference. if you want to own something on paper buy the gold and silver stocks. those have also skyrocketed the past year. SVM was posted in the thread above at $3 and its currently almost $12. personally im up almost 300% on the stock and have no intentions on selling as it will only continue to go up over time....
i dont believe the dollar will collapse completely but i do believe dollars will be worth dimes in a few years so you want to own the physical metals as an insurance policy.
and yes i buy silver and gold bullion regularly and i would NEVER buy the etf's. i want the bullion in my physical possession. yes you pay a premium but you also get it on the backend when you decide to sell on eBay as a reference. if you want to own something on paper buy the gold and silver stocks. those have also skyrocketed the past year. SVM was posted in the thread above at $3 and its currently almost $12. personally im up almost 300% on the stock and have no intentions on selling as it will only continue to go up over time....
i dont believe the dollar will collapse completely but i do believe dollars will be worth dimes in a few years so you want to own the physical metals as an insurance policy.
That is a real problem, true niltes. Also, there is a place for EFT's in my opinion. But not for me and what I am trying to do. EFT's have some merit for speculative investment in my opinion.
I store my gold and silver in a safe way that is fire/flood proof and low cost and also secure.
I wonder...How much does a smallish bank box cost these days?
tulsa
tulsa i have a safety box i plan to use right now, but found this as a interesting read, if not overly optimistic, but still interesting.
Excerpt From The Silver Price Spiral:
Excerpt From The Silver Price Spiral:
I will abbreviate this discussion by just pointing out the various reasons why industrial demand must continue to rise rapidly, irrespective of the price. In most of its industrial applications, it is either vastly superior to any other metal, or (in the case of its anti-bacterial properties) totally unique. This makes its “substitution rate” very low, or even zero. It is also the most versatile metal, with more new patents being filed for silver-based applications than for any other metal. It is being utilized in many of our most-dynamic “high-tech” sectors, from being a component in computers; solar power; and a nearly infinite number of brand-new medical/hygiene applications: in everything from body-washes to upholstery.
…
Thus, as I stated at the beginning, it is a fait accompli that the price of silver is heading for a three-digit number. The interesting question becomes: what will be the first digit of that number?
In that respect, I offer four key dynamics to make my case that the first digit of the (three-digit) price for silver will be closer to a “9” than a “1” - most likely at some point this decade, and we cannot discount the possibility of silver rising to the $1000/oz-level.
…
Silver is roughly 17 times as common as gold in the Earth’s crust. This differential has been exaggerated by the grossly disproportional price ratio between silver and gold – which is currently greater than 60:1, and has remained at or above 50:1 for most of the last two decades. However, as I have discussed previously, one of those two parameters has already changed dramatically.
With somewhere around 90% of global stockpiles of silver gone, the amount of (above-ground) silver versus gold is nowhere near that historical, 17:1 ratio. While no firm numbers exist to quantify this, estimates I have seen range from there being six times as much silver as gold, while some commentators are already maintaining that the amount of available gold in the world now exceeds the amount of silver.
Given such parameters, the current 60:1 price ratio is absolutely ridiculous – even without factoring-in all the demand fundamentals which I have mentioned previously. When we include those factors, it becomes safe to conclude that (at current prices) silver is the most-undervalued of all commodities in the world, today, and arguably the most-undervalued commodity in modern economic history.
Thus, an “explosion” in the price of silver is coming – and coming soon…and when that explosion takes place, it will be the re-discovery of silver as jewelry which will be the additional variable in propelling silver toward or above the $1000/oz-mark.
…
Thus, as I stated at the beginning, it is a fait accompli that the price of silver is heading for a three-digit number. The interesting question becomes: what will be the first digit of that number?
In that respect, I offer four key dynamics to make my case that the first digit of the (three-digit) price for silver will be closer to a “9” than a “1” - most likely at some point this decade, and we cannot discount the possibility of silver rising to the $1000/oz-level.
…
Silver is roughly 17 times as common as gold in the Earth’s crust. This differential has been exaggerated by the grossly disproportional price ratio between silver and gold – which is currently greater than 60:1, and has remained at or above 50:1 for most of the last two decades. However, as I have discussed previously, one of those two parameters has already changed dramatically.
With somewhere around 90% of global stockpiles of silver gone, the amount of (above-ground) silver versus gold is nowhere near that historical, 17:1 ratio. While no firm numbers exist to quantify this, estimates I have seen range from there being six times as much silver as gold, while some commentators are already maintaining that the amount of available gold in the world now exceeds the amount of silver.
Given such parameters, the current 60:1 price ratio is absolutely ridiculous – even without factoring-in all the demand fundamentals which I have mentioned previously. When we include those factors, it becomes safe to conclude that (at current prices) silver is the most-undervalued of all commodities in the world, today, and arguably the most-undervalued commodity in modern economic history.
Thus, an “explosion” in the price of silver is coming – and coming soon…and when that explosion takes place, it will be the re-discovery of silver as jewelry which will be the additional variable in propelling silver toward or above the $1000/oz-mark.
Wow, that is optimistic! I do know that silver is used and lost to industry at a greater percentage than gold. It really is very useful beyond a 'store of value.' I have a feeling that gold will always be at the front of the line and that piece isn't saying otherwise. I do agree that the opportunity for growth is greater for silver than for gold.
I hope that silver does skyrocket...I won't be complaining. Kidman, do a bit of online reading about suspicions that the ETF's may not be fully backed by actual silver as they are supposed to be. That is an amazing concern. There are concerns that the ETF's may be artificially depressing the price of silver by giving a false measure of the actual volume of mined silver. If the ETF's are just paper with either no or lesser backing than stated, then the real above ground silver is much lower than estimated which means the prices would rise dramatically if this is true.
I don't know if it is true, but there are some serious questions about the auditing processes.
Good luck!
tulsa
I hope that silver does skyrocket...I won't be complaining. Kidman, do a bit of online reading about suspicions that the ETF's may not be fully backed by actual silver as they are supposed to be. That is an amazing concern. There are concerns that the ETF's may be artificially depressing the price of silver by giving a false measure of the actual volume of mined silver. If the ETF's are just paper with either no or lesser backing than stated, then the real above ground silver is much lower than estimated which means the prices would rise dramatically if this is true.
I don't know if it is true, but there are some serious questions about the auditing processes.
Good luck!
tulsa
yea, if you check out the scottsdale link i posted above, they feel the same way.
"Support the Silver Movement - If everyone bought 1 ounce of silver, it would break the back of the banks that are being investigated for manipulating the silver market. The blogs are heating up with the google trend "Crash JP Morgan Buy Silver" so we've created this offering to attract everyone - especially first time silver buyers"
"Support the Silver Movement - If everyone bought 1 ounce of silver, it would break the back of the banks that are being investigated for manipulating the silver market. The blogs are heating up with the google trend "Crash JP Morgan Buy Silver" so we've created this offering to attract everyone - especially first time silver buyers"
