The Pinnacle lean Crushed. Circa '95 style.

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This so called lean is absurd. Its penny line that has been used since 1995 to counter the wise guy moves, etc. The sharp young fellow who developed it went on to become very successful with it, among other things, and eventualy opened up a book called Pinnacle. You know him as H. I am talking to you from the stardust book in 95. Where it all started....


Lets see whom the market sharps are here.








The pinnacle scale is this. short 50.6 - 51.5 long. Which is waited for deflation .30 basis points or 3 cents, which is exactly right. Convert back to the old days at the Stardust and that would be called a PENNY line.


I believe a sharp young fellow in Australia, an avid horse fan I am sure, came up with the idea. Efficent type, always tinkering and refineing, like Robert Walker. Nothing like reducing the juice 3,4,5 and 7 cents cents, to make a jr wise guy buy the myth YET AGAIN, that he is saving money because of lower juice and is thus being sharp. Lets call the future and lets convert that scale on the internet and see what it looks like out back , short 52.1 53 long or ta dah -105 -3 cents and you started at -102. I LIKE, I LIKE.

Congrulations to one and all who said -108 was the start point for Pinnacle.
-107 is acceptable. Lets put a call back to the past and continue the story.
Service not avaliable, please try again. Shulda figured.


Yeah, remember it well in fact. Was sitting right there. No fancy high speed computer or anything like that plenty of time to get trapped by random bet factor, in those slow, slow, dial up and land line days. Workerd you like the seals you were chasing your own fish. We catered to the wise. They help us keep you losing as a much as ever and happy to do so for no more than a few drinks tickets and some insider chat/tips from me in my day. Never got tired of it.


In those days everyone had to wait around forever until you decided you were to be what I call a sharp square or sharpaire. Most times I was on the phone and D Wayne was running the show and well all the jr wise... and to the best of my knowledge the not so old school adjusted to the new game quick and went on with life.



The rest of you are IDIOTS



For the record. What you are is a convertiable bond with an call option attached. Thats so we can call you every thing in the book and put you in your place, until you decide to put some thought into what you are doing.


By the time H and company showed up......they had to call home, on a land line to make a call on you, it was so easy.



LEAN MY ASS. Never heard a person say we had a Stardust lean. I swear.
 

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Sugarbear, have you been hanging out with Charlie Sheen? I ask cuz it sounds to me like you're "winning"
 

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would somebody translate this..I know it was English but im missing something..
 

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Really, I, the legend of that place was there. Do tell, I am curios. You sure that was lean?



Yeah the scale is weighted against wise guys and there wise guys ways of doing things, including any wise guy books. The more you do things like a wise guy the more you lose. The less you do so, i.e. laying -110 instead of 105 to start a market the more you win. Figure it out from there or find someone who speaks the market sharps language.
 

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I'm a big believer in the Pinny lean, but I have no idea what you are trying to say with your post. The words are not formatted in a language that I understand. Can someone translate?
 

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I'm a big believer in the Pinny lean, but I have no idea what you are trying to say with your post. The words are not formatted in a language that I understand. Can someone translate?

I think what he's trying to say is that there is no lean, only smaller juice with with even smaller juice on one side in order to get a bigger hold which equals bigger profits.
 

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I think what he's trying to say is that there is no lean, only smaller juice with with even smaller juice on one side in order to get a bigger hold which equals bigger profits.

thank you...I didn't really understand what Sugarbear was saying either. How does this affect us playing at another book we've always trusted (betjam)?
 

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I think what he's trying to say is that there is no lean, only smaller juice with with even smaller juice on one side in order to get a bigger hold which equals bigger profits.

Still not clear. Maybe it's semantics. If the entire market has 3-110 but Pinny is hanging +3+101/-3-111...is that not a lean? Is not just reduced juice.
 

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I have never gave a thought to this so called Pinny Lean. Total nonsense IMHO
 

THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.
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Wow, first a sugarbear sighting.

Second, I went through all of my English conversion dictionaries and nothing seems to be able to translate the above message:)
 

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Still not clear. Maybe it's semantics. If the entire market has 3-110 but Pinny is hanging +3+101/-3-111...is that not a lean? Is not just reduced juice.

You would still be giving the book a 1.88% edge and would be betting into a -EV situation because true odds for +101/-111 is +105.74/-105.74
 

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You would still be giving the book a 1.88% edge and would be betting into a -EV situation because true odds for +101/-111 is +105.74/-105.74

Are you assuming we're talking about a closing line? If I bet +3-110 when Pinny has -3+101/+3-110 and then the line closes +4-110, is it still -EV because of the odds available when I placed the bet?
 

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Are you assuming we're talking about a closing line? If I bet +3-110 when Pinny has -3+101/+3-110 and then the line closes +4-110, is it still -EV because of the odds available when I placed the bet?

Two ways you can find you answer...

A) Create an account at Pinnacle to view their dynamic lines.
B) Use the half-point calculator which is "close" but not exact (different push frequencies for home / away).

But if you bet it at +3 (-110) when Pinny has -3 (+101/-110), it's not a great wager. And if it closes at +4 (-110), it's an even worse wager, regardless of the outcome.
 

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I am a firm believer in the Pinny lean, or whatever you want to call it.

Back in my scalping days, I cashed out of Pinny twice in 3.5 years, the rest were deposits.

They would hang a line, or half time line at say....+3(+110) and another book would have -3(-113), this is a .67% vig, sometimes you could find positive vig, actually a lot of times. That lean or whatever you want to call it has held up over the years. I have never documented wagers, or tried to bet solely on this so called lean, but there is something to their line.

Grant it, it's not what it use to be. In regards to SB post, hell, it seems Pinny was/is operating on a exchange format in a sense, their lines display that format at least at times. I have never played matchbook, or any other exchange, but from what I get out of it, it seems "exchange" like
 

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Still not clear. Maybe it's semantics. If the entire market has 3-110 but Pinny is hanging +3+101/-3-111...is that not a lean? Is not just reduced juice.

I think the pinny stopper is -112 or -113, i have read that in several spots and in Justins book conquering risk which is a great read by the way.
 

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I am a firm believer in the Pinny lean, or whatever you want to call it.

Back in my scalping days, I cashed out of Pinny twice in 3.5 years, the rest were deposits.

They would hang a line, or half time line at say....+3(+110) and another book would have -3(-113), this is a .67% vig, sometimes you could find positive vig, actually a lot of times. That lean or whatever you want to call it has held up over the years. I have never documented wagers, or tried to bet solely on this so called lean, but there is something to their line.

Grant it, it's not what it use to be. In regards to SB post, hell, it seems Pinny was/is operating on a exchange format in a sense, their lines display that format at least at times. I have never played matchbook, or any other exchange, but from what I get out of it, it seems "exchange" like

Yes I believe they do operate as an exchange. SBR had some videos a few weeks back talking to someone from pinny and they refer to themselves as traders. The guy who was interviewed used to be a market maker for one of the exchanges before going to work at pinny. They were good interviews I thought.
 

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