U.S. Online Poker Players Will Get Their Money Back...agreement announced today

U.S. Online Poker Players Will Get Their Money Back

Apr. 20 2011 - 10:54 am | 42 views | 0 recommendations | 0 comments
By NATHAN VARDI
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Federal prosecutors in Manhattan may have declared war against the world’s biggest online poker companies, but the two sides are working together to return funds belonging to U.S. players.
Under an agreement announced today, the government will allow PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker to use their web sites to facilitate the withdrawal of U.S. players’ funds held in accounts with the companies. The five-page domain-name use agreements with PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker will also let the poker companies continue to use their domain names to offer for-money online poker games to players outside the U.S. In return the world’s two biggest online poker companies have agreed not to facilitate for-money poker games for U.S. players and to let an independent monitor verify their compliance with the deal.
Last week Preet Bharara, the U.S. Attorney in Manhattan, shut down the online poker industry in America by seizing five Internet domain names, including pokerstars.com and fulltiltpoker.com, used by the three main companies facilitating online poker games in the U.S. In addition, a federal judge issued a restraining order against 76 bank accounts in 14 countries utilized by those online poker firms. The crackdown included the unsealing of an indictment against 11 individuals, including Isai Scheinberg and Raymond Bitar, the founders of PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker, which accused them of operating illegal gambling businesses and conspiring to commit bank fraud.
“No individual player accounts were ever frozen or restrained, and each implicated poker company has at all times been free to reimburse any player’s deposited funds,” Bharara said in a statement. “This office expects the companies to return the money that U.S. players entrusted to them, and we will work with the poker companies to facilitate the return of funds to players.”

http://pokerati.com/2011/04/18/play...-challenges-to-reclaiming-online-poker-funds/

Players Shouldn’t Expect Money Back without Facing Tax Problems
Indictments produce challenges to reclaiming online poker funds
ShareThis⎜ View Comments by Special to Pokerati, Apr 18, 2011 | 4:54 pm

Sanford Millar
OP-ED
There are two actions pending against online poker companies in the Southern District of New York — an indictment of individual defendants, and a civil forfeiture complaint against the companies. The civil forfeiture complaint seeks forfeiture of all assets of the defendants, including specified domains and bank accounts.

There have been several civil and criminal forfeiture cases brought by the DoJ in recent years, including Daniel Tzvetkoff’s and Douglas Rennick’s (which are the original and first superseding indictments in the current case). Similar forfeiture cases have also been brought against other payment processors, but in none of these cases, as far as I know, have the Poker companies filed claims objecting to the seizures. Also of note is that no players made claims either.

Any player who makes a claim [for their deposits] should expect criminal inquiry by the FBI and IRS, and would not be able to recover on provable claims for some time. If the Poker companies default on the civil forfeiture, players will have no real legal recovery.

For the purpose of filing Foreign Bank Account Reports, some players may have taken the position, consistent with the position of the IRS, that they are general unsecured creditors in a common pool fund of deposits, and as such have no control or discretion over the investment of the funds. If this position is correct, then the DoJ’s forfeiture claims may have legs, as there may be no players to come forward able to make the specific factual statements necessary for a bonafide claim. Further, in order for the Poker companies to make claims, they likely would have to submit to jurisdiction of the U.S. and open their books and records to the DoJ and IRS among others.

Players who think they can write off their funds on deposit for tax purposes, and thereby get some benefit by tax losses, may run into the problem that IRC §165 limits gambling losses to gambling winnings (plus travel and related expenses for professional gamblers). But that means the winnings must have been reported and will require proof of deposits made. For some players, proof of deposit may be problematic.

Any player who makes a claim should expect to face full disclosure requirements on inquiry by the FBI and IRS (likely Criminal Investigation Division) and would not be able to recover on provable claims for some time, and at a non-trivial expense. For among other things, for players to prevail, they will need to get cooperation from the Poker companies and produce “competent evidence”.

If there is a possibility that the Poker companies default on the civil forfeiture, the players will have no real legal recovery.

Just my observations.

Sanford Millar is a domestic and international tax attorney in LA, and Commissioner of the California Bar’s Taxation Law Advisory Commission. Find him at MillarLawOffice.com, where his firm handles cross-border compliance matters with a sub-specialty in e-commerce and internet gaming.

So the FBI and IRS are going to investigate every american player who requests a withdrawl ? .. That shouldnt take too much time..

World Number One said:

So the FBI and IRS are going to investigate every american player who requests a withdrawl ? .. That shouldnt take too much time..

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I doubt that

World Number One said:

So the FBI and IRS are going to investigate every american player who requests a withdrawl ? .. That shouldnt take too much time..

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23 YEARS approximently..........anyone over 50 has little to worry about.

What a fvcking joke.

Wish they would get off their damn high horse and let us spend our money as we wish

i have $0.04 in my pokerstars acccount.....thinking about fucking with them

To hell with my 200 on FT...I just wanna be able to play poker when ever and where ever I want.

soonerdawg1 said:

i have $0.04 in my pokerstars acccount.....thinking about fucking with them

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You can try but I think there is a min withdraw of 10$

I had a large balance when black friday happened.... Im very happy to see that this money isnt lost.

soonerdawg1 said:

i have $0.04 in my pokerstars acccount.....thinking about fucking with them

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lax_gunman said:

To hell with my 200 on FT...I just wanna be able to play poker when ever and where ever I want.

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same here I just want to play oh well ill wait at least a year to request the WD then ... that should tell us what happens... maybe poker will be legal online... as sugarbear thinks... we get offered a bailout by an american poker company :O)

The first post is the only pertinent one. The second post is just some guy's opinion, someone I might add that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. The government lacks the inclination, the time and/or resources to investigate every American who makes a w/d, the idea is preposterous. The other day someone of note speculated our money was all but gone, now after getting good news we will be paid they try to dampen that with wild unsubstantiated guesses about what the feds might do. Hogwash. In 6-8 weeks just about everyone will be paid, no criminal investigations either except perhaps less than 1/2 of 1% who were already on the feds radar. Drops your acorns, the sky ain't falling boys, get your money if you want it.

Just got this from PS:

Dear MojoRisin68,

We were very pleased to receive the news today that allows US players to cash out their real money balances.

In response to this update, the Cashout Option in the PokerStars Cashier will be temporarily closed to allow us to prepare the technical solutions and formulate the plan and processes required to allow you to cash out your balance.

In the interim, any pending cashouts have been returned to your account in order to ensure players have the opportunity to cash out orderly. Please be assured, US player balances are safe. We will notify all US players as soon as the cashier is available again.

Providing you with the facility to cash out is our top priority right now, and hopefully all US players will be able to cash out via the PokerStars Cashier in the near future. We apologize for the temporary delay, and sincerely appreciate your patience and cooperation, as we continue working towards providing you with a solution to cash out.

Regards,

PokerStars Support

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Dante said:

same here I just want to play oh well ill wait at least a year to request the WD then ... that should tell us what happens... maybe poker will be legal online... as sugarbear thinks... we get offered a bailout by an american poker company :O)

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+1 got about 400 n change in FT, not trying to deal with the bull shit its gonna come with

Patrick McIrish said:

The first post is the only pertinent one. The second post is just some guy's opinion, someone I might add that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. The government lacks the inclination, the time and/or resources to investigate every American who makes a w/d, the idea is preposterous. The other day someone of note speculated our money was all but gone, now after getting good news we will be paid they try to dampen that with wild unsubstantiated guesses about what the feds might do. Hogwash. In 6-8 weeks just about everyone will be paid, no criminal investigations either except perhaps less than 1/2 of 1% who were already on the feds radar. Drops your acorns, the sky ain't falling boys, get your money if you want it.

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exactly... I was reading that guys blog comments 90% think he is an idiot...

I'm just trying to decide where to deposit my pokerstars check when I get it... I need a poker fix, bad.

death eats a cracker said:

just got this from ps:dear mojorisin68,

we were very pleased to receive the news today that allows us players to cash out their real money balances.

in response to this update, the cashout option in the pokerstars cashier will be temporarily closed to allow us to prepare the technical solutions for the fbi and formulate the plan and processes required to allow you to cash out and then be contacted by the fbi about your balance.

in the interim, any pending cashouts have been returned to your account so you won't slip thru the net in order to ensure players have the opportunity to cash out orderly. Please be assured, us player balances are safe. We will notify all us players as soon as the cashier is available again so you can get a attorney as we will start handing records over to irs.

Providing you with the facility to cash out is our top priority right now, and hopefully all us players will be able to cash out via the pokerstars cashier in the near future. We apologize for the temporary delay, and sincerely appreciate your patience and cooperation, as we continue working towards providing you with a solution to cash out.

Regards,

pokerstars support

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wow scary!!!!

festeringZit said:

I'm just trying to decide where to deposit my pokerstars check when I get it... I need a poker fix, bad.

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let me know a good site fester ill join ya I miss it ... will be playing Live poker more in my area in the under ground houses