In my mind there is only one player in MLB history that is the undisputed greatest player of all-time at his position

CHOPTALK · Jun 8, 2011

Mariano Rivera

Im certainly not a Yankee fan by any stretch, but I have to give respect where it is due.

Was reading fishhead's Pabelbon thread and got me to thinking about the great one.

Many closers come and go, with lots of 1, 2, and 3 year wonder's.

But Rivera just amazes me more and more everyday.

There is no doubt that he is the single greatest closer in the history of baseball.
Any other name and you would be 100% wrong.

There is not another position in MLB baseball history where one player is the undisputed best player at his position in baseball.

You can make a case for who is the greatest 1st baseman of all-time, but you cant say for 100% sure who was the best ever.

Samething for 2nd, 3rd, SS, catcher.

You name it.

Mariano Rivera is no question the greatest of all-time.

Let pap do what he has been doing another 12 years before we even have the talk about him mentioned in the same sentence.

The ECK was great, but not long enough.
Trever was the closest thing to him, but never saved the big game.

The few chances he had to save important games he blew it.

In the World Series and the All-star game with homefield on the line.

How many closers have we seen have a few great years and fall apart?

Too many to name.

Rivera has been doing this since the Clinton administration, his 1st term.

And its amazing he is not showing in real signs of slowing down.

steaktartar · Jun 8, 2011

i would agree with you as of now......ruth maybe........

CHOPTALK · Jun 8, 2011

steak tartar said:
i would agree with you as of now......ruth maybe........

The key word on your post MAYBE
So many great outfielders

Mays, Bonds, Henderson, Williams.

You can certainly make a strong case for Ruth, but there is no way you can say for 100% that he was the best.

There is no argument with M.R.

You just cant make a case for anyone else.

Maggiore · Jun 8, 2011

Johnny Bench....No one even close at the catcher position. Pudge was great, but not in Bench's league.

wilheim · Jun 8, 2011

You can add Mike Schimidt as the best Third basemen to ever play the game hands down..

No player combined power with grace at third base like Schmidt. He hit 548 homers, drove in 1,595 and won 10 Gold Gloves in his 18-year career. He was rarely injured, allowing him to the lead the National League in home runs eight times and winning three MVP awards. He also helped lead the Phillies to the 1980 World Series title.

George Brett is a fairly close but no doubt about it second best. The careers of Brett and Schmidt paralelled in many ways, over virtually the same seasons in different leagues. They were on opposite sides in the 1980 World Series, and incredibly, they both finished with the same number of RBI (1,595). Brett didn't have as much power and wasn't quite as good in the field, but he was a more complete hitter, becoming the first player in history to accumulate more than 3,000 hits, 300 home runs, 600 doubles, 100 triples, 1,500 RBI and 200 stolen bases. Brett was MVP in 1980, when he batted .390 with 24 homers and 118 RBI. Brett, who hit 10 postseason home runs, won a World Series in 1985.

Babe Ruth is in a class by himself.
Many of his records have been surpassed, but the Bambino is the central figure in the history of the sport. The stats alone -- .342 career batting average, the mythical 714 home runs, .690 slugging percentage (he has a phenomenal career OPS of 1.164, No. 1 all-time) -- are enough for No. 1 on this list. Add to that what he meant to the sport's popularity, his seven World Series titles (four with the Yankees and three with the Red Sox from 1915-18).
And he's also among the top ten lefties of all time, too, going 94-46 with a 2.28 ERA before moving to right field full-time.

In Left field the honor goes to The Splendid Splinter Ted Williams. What puts Williams over the top isn't just that .344 lifetime average, the .482 on-base percentage, the .634 slugging percentage or those 521 homers. It's the fact that he missed all of three seasons and parts of two others serving in the military as a fighter pilot, and all in the prime of his career (World War II and Korea). If you give Williams 25 homers a year - a low total - for those five years, he's approaching 700 homers, and with that career average, he rivals Babe Ruth as a hitter. The last player to hit .400 in a season (.406 in 1941) is also perhaps the greatest student of hitting ever. His career OPS (on base plus slugging) of 1.116 is second only to Ruth..

Stan the Man Musial is a close second to Williams as an icon for The St. Louis Cardinals at left Field.

Catching is a toss up between Yogi and Johnny Bench (take your pick). Yogi Wasn't quite the defensive equivalent of Bench, but he was probably even better as a pure hitter. He was AL MVP three times - and received MVP votes for 15 years in a row - and was a 15-time AL All-Star who won 10 World Series as a Yankee in a 16-year span. He hit 358 chomers and led the Yankees in RBI in every season from 1949-55 on teams loaded with future Hall of Famers. He also caught Don Larsen's World Series perfect game in 1956.

Johnny Bench was perhaps the central figure in the Big Red Machine teams of the 1970s, he was a combination of power at the plate and defensive ability behind it that was unprecedented. Bench won 10 Gold Gloves, two NL MVP awards and was named to 14 All-Star teams in his 17 seasons. The 1968 NL Rookie of the Year also led the league in RBI three times.

Stats from About.com

wil..

steaktartar · Jun 8, 2011

CHOPTALK said:
The key word on your post MAYBE
So many great outfielders

Mays, Bonds, Henderson, Williams.

You can certainly make a strong case for Ruth, but there is no way you can say for 100% that he was the best.

There is no argument with M.R.

You just cant make a case for anyone else.

did you just put henrderson....lol..........maybe mantle musial and a few others over him....ty cobb perhaps?

CHOPTALK · Jun 8, 2011

What about Brooks Robinson?
I had to pick best 3rd Baseman I would probably lean towards Schmidt myself.
But Robinson was better defensively and hit for a higher average.

wilheim said:
No player combined power with grace at third base like Schmidt. He hit 548 homers, drove in 1,595 and won 10 Gold Gloves in his 18-year career. He was rarely injured, allowing him to the lead the National League in home runs eight times and winning three MVP awards. He also helped lead the Phillies to the 1980 World Series title.

George Brett is a fairly close but no doubt about it second best. The careers of Brett and Schmidt paralelled in many ways, over virtually the same seasons in different leagues. They were on opposite sides in the 1980 World Series, and incredibly, they both finished with the same number of RBI (1,595). Brett didn't have as much power and wasn't quite as good in the field, but he was a more complete hitter, becoming the first player in history to accumulate more than 3,000 hits, 300 home runs, 600 doubles, 100 triples, 1,500 RBI and 200 stolen bases. Brett was MVP in 1980, when he batted .390 with 24 homers and 118 RBI. Brett, who hit 10 postseason home runs, won a World Series in 1985.

Babe Ruth is in a class by himself.
Many of his records have been surpassed, but the Bambino is the central figure in the history of the sport. The stats alone -- .342 career batting average, the mythical 714 home runs, .690 slugging percentage (he has a phenomenal career OPS of 1.164, No. 1 all-time) -- are enough for No. 1 on this list. Add to that what he meant to the sport's popularity, his seven World Series titles (four with the Yankees and three with the Red Sox from 1915-18).
And he's also among the top ten lefties of all timehttp://baseball.about.com/od/majorleaguehistory/tp/lefthandedpitchers.htm, too, going 94-46 with a 2.28 ERA before moving to right field full-time.

In Left field the honor goes to The Splendid Splinter Ted Williams. What puts Williams over the top isn't just that .344 lifetime average, the .482 on-base percentage, the .634 slugging percentage or those 521 homers. It's the fact that he missed all of three seasons and parts of two others serving in the military as a fighter pilot, and all in the prime of his career (World War II and Korea). If you give Williams 25 homers a year - a low total - for those five years, he's approaching 700 homers, and with that career average, he rivals Babe Ruth as a hitter. The last player to hit .400 in a season (.406 in 1941) is also perhaps the greatest student of hitting ever. His career OPS (on base plus slugging) of 1.116 is second only to Ruth..

Stan the Man Musial is a close second to Williams as an icon for The St. Louis Cardinals at left Field.

Catching is a toss up between Yogi and Johnny Bench (take your pick). Yogi Wasn't quite the defensive equivalent Bench, but he was probably even better as a pure hitter. He was AL MVP three times - and received MVP votes for 15 years in a row - and was a 15-time AL All-Star who won 10 World Series as a Yankee in a 16-year span. He hit 358 chomers and led the Yankees in RBI in every season from 1949-55 on teams loaded with future Hall of Famers. He also caught Don Larsen's World Series perfect game in 1956.

Johnny Bench was perhaps the central figure in the Big Red Machine teams of the 1970s, he was a combination of power at the plate and defensive ability behind it that was unprecedented. Bench won 10 Gold Gloves, two NL MVP awards and was named to 14 All-Star teams in his 17 seasons. The 1968 NL Rookie of the Year also led the league in RBI three times.

Stats from About.com

wil..

CHOPTALK · Jun 8, 2011

steak tartar said:
did you just put henrderson....lol..........maybe mantle musial and a few others over him....ty cobb perhaps?

Yea, I put Henderson. The most underrated player in baseball history.

douglas · Jun 8, 2011

Brooks Robinson = The vacuum !

wilheim · Jun 8, 2011

Brooks is right up their but there is no comparison when it comes to offensive productivity that Schmidt and Brett were much bettor. There's little debate that Robinson was the finest fielding third baseman of all-time, as his 16 consecutive Gold Gloves would attest. He was a darn good hitter as well, driving in 1,367 in his career with 268 homers. His finest season came in 1964, when he hit .317 with 28 homers and 118 RBI. He played more games at third base than anybody (2,870) and has the best fielding percentage (.971). His acrobatic plays in the 1970 World Series are a staple of historic highlight packages, and he batted better than .500 that postseason, too, going 16 for 33 with two homers. Great player who is the 3rd or 4th best 3rd basemen to ever play the game (lets not forget the great Eddie Matthews)..

wil.

wilheim · Jun 8, 2011

Regarding Henderson: He was the greatest leadoff hitter of all-time and is a solid third on this list of great left fielders. He's the all-time leader in stolen bases (1,406) and runs scored (2,295) and also hit 297 homers. He only hit .279, but his on-base average was a stellar .401, as he was the all-time leader in walks. He won two World Series titles, with Oakland in 1989 and Toronto in 1993. Say what you want he was no Ted Williams or Stan Musial though..He just was not even in the same league when it came to hitting the baseball as the top two.

wil..

douglas · Jun 8, 2011

Card game
Henderson, Bonilla show up Valentine in Game 6
Click here for more on this story

Posted: Friday October 22, 1999 04:56 PM

ATLANTA (AP) - While their teammates struggled to hold onto a one-run lead in Game 6 of the National League Championship Series, New York Mets outfielders Rickey Henderson and Bobby Bonilla played cards in the clubhouse in a show of defiance against manager Bobby Valentine, according to a published report.

The Record of Hackensack reported that, according to people in the organization, the two spent the last three innings in the clubhouse ignoring the game.

Henderson, in particular, was angry with Valentine because the manager replaced him with Melvin Mora in the eighth inning of Game 4 -- after Henderson had already taken his spot in left field.

Teammates were not happy about the pair's absence.

"Guys who saw (the card game) wanted to take a bat to their heads after the game," one person affiliated with the team said. "There were players crying and screaming in the dugout (after the Mets lost the game in 11 innings). Then they walk in the clubhouse and see that?"

Fishhead · Jun 8, 2011

Chop.........completely agree!!!!

steaktartar · Jun 8, 2011

Maggiore said:
Johnny Bench....No one even close at the catcher position. Pudge was great, but not in Bench's league.

ya im agreeing here now too.......i was thinking maybe cochrane..but he only played until he was 34.....piazza hit the best but defense bench by ten miles..........so ya bench is a standout

Fishhead · Jun 8, 2011

steak tartar said:
ya im agreeing here now too.......i was thinking maybe cochrane..but he only played until he was 34.....piazza hit the best but defense bench by ten miles..........so ya bench is a standout

Everyone seems to be forgetting a VASTLY UNDERrated player.............

I-ROD

BLEACHER REPORT as him #1 alltime.

I-ROD gets my vote as best catcher all-time also......................

Rodriguez is the greatest catcher of all-time. He was superb offensively, as he hit for a .302 career average with 295 home runs, 1,217 RBI, 1,253 runs scored, 2,605 base hits, and 124 stolen bases in 18 seasons. He has been selected to the All-Star team 14 times, starting at catcher in 12 of them.

Perhaps the greatest defensive catcher of all-time, leading all catchers with an amazing 13 Gold Gloves. He also won the Silver Slugger Award six consecutive times, from 1994 to 1999. He also helped lead his teams to two World Series appearances, winning one in the 2003 season with the Florida Marlins.

He has been one of the best catchers in terms of handling pitching staffs, as his teams have regularly had great team ERAs. Finally, he won the 1999 AL MVP award as he had a .332 average, 35 home runs, 113 RBI, 116 runs scored, and 25 stolen bases as a member of the Texas Rangers.

The more this thread evolves, more and more one will realize that CHOP is spot on with his MARIANO STATEMENT

silver7 · Jun 8, 2011

Schmidt was my 1st pick. Then Gherig @ 1st. Very close to Ruth in their primes w/offensive #'s. Those 2 stand out, & then of course the Babe in the OF. Pick any other 2 but he HAS to be one of the 3. Like Bench a lot also.

CHOPTALK · Jun 8, 2011

Dont get me wrong. I lean towards certain players at certain positions.

But for every Schmidt you have a Robinson. Yes I lean towards Schmidt, but you certainly cant laugh at someone who says Robinson or Brett.

I lean towards Pudge, but I cant argue with anyone who prefers Bench.

Ruth maybe the greatest outfielder ever.
But if someone says Mays can you really fault them?

One thing I can do though.

If anyone ever says there is a better closer then #42, I can laugh at them without mercy.
You cant make a legit case for anyone else and be taken seriously at the same time.

Fishhead · Jun 8, 2011

Let's assume DENNIS ECKERSLEY is the 2nd best reliever all-time.........

MARIANO's undisputed edge over ECK (or others) is far greater than SCHMIDTS edge over BRETT (and others).

I would guess that 95% of impartial and knowledgable baseball fans would rate MARIANO as the greatest RP ever............whereas I think the percentage would be much less for those stating SCHMIDT was best 3b ever.........or BENCH as best C.

Fishhead · Jun 8, 2011

CHOPTALK said:
Dont get me wrong. I lean towards certain players at certain positions.

But for every Schmidt you have a Robinson. Yes I lean towards Schmidt, but you certainly cant laugh at someone who says Robinson or Brett.

I lean towards Pudge, but I cant argue with anyone who prefers Bench.

Ruth maybe the greatest outfielder ever.
But if someone says Mays can you really fault them?

One thing I can do though.

If anyone ever says there is a better closer then #42, I can laugh at them without mercy.
You cant make a legit case for anyone else and be taken seriously at the same time.

One cannot throw RUTH into OF category.......it would have to be RF.

Many would say that RUTH was not the greatest RFer of alltime............as many would choose 25 time ALL-STAR HANK AARON.

RUTH is the greatest of all-time when one takes into considertion EVERYTHING, but perhaps not when just taking ONE position into account......

Which brings us back to the whole meaning of this thread.........MARIANO is the man at his position, nobody can successfully argue anyone else in my opinion.

JohnnyMac · Jun 8, 2011

One-inning closers have only been around for 20 to 25 years, which is exactly the time period of Rivera's career. He isn't competing with 120 years of players to claim this title.

In my mind there is only one player in MLB history that is the undisputed greatest player of all-time at his position

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