WSEX issues

jamesinny · Jul 4, 2011

Hi,
I joined WSEX - World Sports Exchange (wsex.com) last year and deposited $5000. Then over 5 months, I won some wagers on sports and balance increased to $10,000. I requested a withdrawl of $10,000 last October from them but have not seen a penny yet. I think I am a victim of fraud. I have called them several times over last 6 months and I am always told they are processing it. I have given up hopes on recovering my money, let alone the winnings. Now I want to take some action against them. If I file a police report in the USA, it is going to be useless as their jurisdiction is based in Antigua. So I am wondering if it would be useful to file a report against them in their local jurisdiction.

If you guys have any suggestions on what I can do, I would really appreciate it. This is a terrible situation for me, and I want to at least recover my deposit from them.

thank you,

James

ProPokerPlayer · Jul 4, 2011

Sorry guy. I dont hit every forum but the ones i do no one is getting paid. poker players owed for over a year. wish i knew where to point ya...

jamesinny · Jul 4, 2011

Isn't there a legal/regulatory authority in this space? This is such a big market so there ought to be some legal authority to help players or bookmakers in cases such as this. I know these are the risks we face when we deal with offshore companies but if there is something out there, that could help me, please let me know.

thank you

jamesinny · Jul 4, 2011

Do you know of a better forum where I can post this question to get guidance from experts in this field?

harrington · Jul 4, 2011

Sir I hate to break this sad news to you but you are screwed. You have absolutely no recourse against any offshore sportsbook. This book had been in trouble for years and you have to stay up on this stuff or you will get burned. Very expensive lesson I know and sorry to hear.

wilheim · Jul 4, 2011

Jamesinny -- What you are reading is sad but true. In the past WSEX was very easy to deal with and I have been involved with helping quite a few of our posters three or so years ago but today I would only get your hopes up for nothing if I said let me try to assist you as there is absolutely nothing I can do to help players at WSEX anymore - sadly.

wilheim...

Zapster · Jul 4, 2011

I'm really sorry to hear this about WSEX. They were my absolute favorite book from around 2000-2006. Paid me $15k after the 2002 World Series without a blink (I had 150 "shares" of the Angels that I bought low during the season). As a businessman in a tough economy I also know what it's like to have cash flow problems. In better times I just paid my vendors as the bills came in......now I have to make sure rent & payroll are covered before I can release funds. My vendors need my biz so they tolerate 45 day payoffs.....but a sportsbook customer can just go to another faster paying book......and that causes less volume and further inability to pay in a timely manner....and eventually they simply have no money to pay out. I realize I am oversimplifying.....but what happened at WSEX was likely a minor cash flow problem that snowballed and eventually caused a damaged rep which caused customers to flee which caused a toxic and (perhaps) fatal spiral.

I still believe that group to be honest at their core.....but it seems they are too screwed to have the ability to function.

I also realize this is all easy for me to say since I have no money in there....and if I had a few dimes stuck in there I would be pissed too.

I joined Rx back in 1999 because I was being stiffed by a book and was hoping to get help (and I did get help).

I think it would be a good thing if there was a formal & clear list of books where Rx has the ability to mitigate disputes (my apologies if one already exists). I myself am down to playing only at 5Dimes and BetJam because I know informally that they both fit that category.....but if a formal list were kept, that would be good for players (for obvious reasons) and the books (they would get much more biz).

Ok......long winded post is done.....now back to looking for that Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest thread...........

wilheim · Jul 4, 2011

Zapster, at this point while I am willing to help anyone with most books I can only guarantee any real help with any or all of our sponsor books and in many cases including their sister or fellow umbrella family books. That is the only list I can offer you or anyone at this time..Books such as WSEX, BetUS and a few others are out of reach for me at this time mainly due to a reluctance on their part to cooperate with any type of mediation..

Thanks, wilheim

Zapster · Jul 4, 2011

That makes sense Wil.....thanks !!

BAGIANT · Jul 4, 2011

Funny, I just made a thread about WSEX yesterday asking if they were paying. Guess I have my answer now.

bigbet1234 · Jul 4, 2011

I read across the street someone got a 3rd of their balance a few weeks ago.

Although that is good news, it seems hopeless

jamesinny · Jul 4, 2011

Zapster said:
I'm really sorry to hear this about WSEX. They were my absolute favorite book from around 2000-2006. Paid me $15k after the 2002 World Series without a blink (I had 150 "shares" of the Angels that I bought low during the season). As a businessman in a tough economy I also know what it's like to have cash flow problems. In better times I just paid my vendors as the bills came in......now I have to make sure rent & payroll are covered before I can release funds. My vendors need my biz so they tolerate 45 day payoffs.....but a sportsbook customer can just go to another faster paying book......and that causes less volume and further inability to pay in a timely manner....and eventually they simply have no money to pay out. I realize I am oversimplifying.....but what happened at WSEX was likely a minor cash flow problem that snowballed and eventually caused a damaged rep which caused customers to flee which caused a toxic and (perhaps) fatal spiral.

I still believe that group to be honest at their core.....but it seems they are too screwed to have the ability to function.

I also realize this is all easy for me to say since I have no money in there....and if I had a few dimes stuck in there I would be pissed too.

I joined Rx back in 1999 because I was being stiffed by a book and was hoping to get help (and I did get help).

I think it would be a good thing if there was a formal & clear list of books where Rx has the ability to mitigate disputes (my apologies if one already exists). I myself am down to playing only at 5Dimes and BetJam because I know informally that they both fit that category.....but if a formal list were kept, that would be good for players (for obvious reasons) and the books (they would get much more biz).

Ok......long winded post is done.....now back to looking for that Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest thread...........

This is fraud.They just cannot accept customers pay checks and not return them at a later period. What you describe as a cash flow problem is actually more commonly called "ponzi scheme" in financial world. WSEX is doing the same crime that Madoff (now sentenced to 150 years in prison) did. He used customer's deposits to pay off previous customers and at some point did not have new customers to pay off existing customers. I would have sued them in court if gambling was legal in the United States, but I myself might get into trouble.

I don't think there is a need to sing praises of WSEX of what they have done in the past, when they are clearly running a ponzi scheme. Please note again this is not a cash flow problem. If you did not maintain sufficient capital to pay off customers, you are running a ponzi scheme which is illegal.

harrington · Jul 4, 2011

jamesinny said:
This is fraud.They just cannot accept customers pay checks and not return them at a later period. What you describe as a cash flow problem is actually more commonly called "ponzi scheme" in financial world. WSEX is doing the same crime that Madoff (now sentenced to 150 years in prison) did. He used customer's deposits to pay off previous customers and at some point did not have new customers to pay off existing customers. I would have sued them in court if gambling was legal in the United States, but I myself might get into trouble.

I don't think there is a need to sing praises of WSEX of what they have done in the past, when they are clearly running a ponzi scheme. Please note again this is not a cash flow problem. If you did not maintain sufficient capital to pay off customers, you are running a ponzi scheme which is illegal.

Yes they can and they will...... and the players that get screwed have 0 recourse. Happened with Aces Gold many years ago. Anything you send off shore it should be considered risk capital.

Betallsports · Jul 4, 2011

jamesinny said:
This is fraud.They just cannot accept customers pay checks and not return them at a later period. What you describe as a cash flow problem is actually more commonly called "ponzi scheme" in financial world. WSEX is doing the same crime that Madoff (now sentenced to 150 years in prison) did. He used customer's deposits to pay off previous customers and at some point did not have new customers to pay off existing customers. I would have sued them in court if gambling was legal in the United States, but I myself might get into trouble.

I don't think there is a need to sing praises of WSEX of what they have done in the past, when they are clearly running a ponzi scheme. Please note again this is not a cash flow problem. If you did not maintain sufficient capital to pay off customers, you are running a ponzi scheme which is illegal.

I think what he might have tried to say was ( and True ) Back in the Hay Day WSEX was the for front of Online gambling sites.
They were not a Fly by Night Shop.... and for whatever the Reason have now become Shit !

By NO MEANS am I sticking up for the place. But because many people had No problems back in the day with this place. i don't know what you can Call them.
Guess you could say they are Dead in the water...

But Anyone that has been on Any of these Forums in the past...ohh 2+ Years
Knows better than to deposit or use WSEX
and since we are talking about Deposit Only Shops...let's add BetUs in there as well.
For the Cherry on Top, throw BetCascade in there.

KennyB · Jul 4, 2011

WSEX has been a been a no pay for years. It is hard to believe that they are still in business but I can't believe that people still post up there.

paftraft · Jul 5, 2011

WSEX was one of my favorite books from 2000-2008. It made its own lines which differed from most books which to me seemed to clone Olympics lines and WSEX offered a great opportunity for scalping. This may have led to its downfall. Here are some reports thru the years:

8/25/2003 02:21 PM
wsex rules in favor of player and pays $39k for software glitch that allowed player to circumvent limits. Because the wagers were initially cancelled after the game, wsex risked violating the SBR policy on player account confiscation - wsex shows class and honor by paying player

6/15/2006 08:43 PM
wsex upgraded from A to A+

1/14/2006 12:24 PM
Current SUPER TOP 10 Sportsbooks. Consensus of 3 top experts.
The following is the combined SUPER TOP 10 according to;
The Sportsbook Review (SBR) Top 10 Recommended List
The EOG Top 10 Sportsbooks in the World
TheRX.com poster voted top Sportsbooks

1. Pinnacle (36)
2. CRIS (30)
3. Olympic ( 29)
4. Hollywood (20)
5. VIP Sports (18)
6. wsex (17)
7. 5 Dimes (10)
8. BetJamaica ( 9)
9. Bet365 (9)
10. BetCascade ( 9)

There downfall seems to have begun in the spring of 2009

4/23/2009 11:03 AM
wsex lowered from A- to B+. The rating change represents a lack of adequate financial processing resources resulting in delays. SBR continues to rate wsex as financially strong and the sportsbook is in position to reclaim a spot on SBR's list of top sportsbooks once processing issues are addressed. Some players have reported delays of two months before receiving payment.

2010 situation becomes scary

4/16/2010 04:12 PM
wsex October slow-pay update
A wsex (SBR rating C-) player that requested $27,000 in October has received his second $3,000 payment today. The player is still waiting on seven additional checks. wsex currently owes $150,400 to 25 players, with the oldest payment requested in October of 2009.

Current situation

6/18/2011 11:38 AM
wsex Sportsbook ignoring old payout requests?
wsex Sportsbook (SBR rating D-) update.

wsex is currently slow-paying its users $494,018. The payout requests range from October 2009 to May 2011. wsex has provided generic updates to players throughout its downswing—where its rating was adjusted nine times—pinning the delays on their processors. | wsex player reports payment

Very sad!

JDeuce · Jul 5, 2011

It's kind of interesting tracking the shifts for the industry. Until the mid-90s, there was no choice but to go with a local. You'd call him up, ask for lines and would keep some kind of running journal tracking your results. Offshore books never really existed until then. Once those came along a few years later, players started moving away from locals and went that route instead.

Now, there seems to be a bigger shift back to locals, mostly because any local worth his salt has his own web site players can bet through. No need for books to field phone calls from players anymore, and it's far more convenient for the player to look at lines on his screen than haggle with operators.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Really sorry to hear your story, James. I think I still have an open account with WSEX (no money in there fortunately), and the last time they paid me was maybe 4 years ago. It pisses me off to see they still accept deposits, and I have to wonder if they are going to pay grave consequences should they try to stiff the wrong person.

I've been fortunate enough to develop good relationships with some locals out here. It wouldn't take you long to get squared away with one in NYC if you tried.

jamesinny · Jul 7, 2011

press

I am not going to let them get away with this. I am going to post this on as many public forums as possible, file a report here and in Antigua, and call them consistently. Hopefully, my persistence will pay off and they will pay my dues.

These kind of companies give a bad name to the whole industry, and there needs to be offshore laws to punish them.

harrington · Jul 7, 2011

jamesinny said:
I am not going to let them get away with this. I am going to post this on as many public forums as possible, file a report here and in Antigua, and call them consistently. Hopefully, my persistence will pay off and they will pay my dues.

These kind of companies give a bad name to the whole industry, and there needs to be offshore laws to punish them.

Good luck and get in line.....Let it go man it will eat away at you. Nothing you can do and there is a 99.9% chance you will never get paid.