its quite obvious when you go through the "make feel good about safety/see you naked " machine as you have to remove everything from your pockets
however the simple fact here is that its not illegal to transport ANY amount of cash in any way inside the US
if you feel like explaining it to them...you can clearly tell them you are going to give it all back in Lost Wages
however the simple fact here is that its not illegal to transport ANY amount of cash in any way inside the US
if you feel like explaining it to them...you can clearly tell them you are going to give it all back in Lost Wages
it is completely legal to carry large sums of cash on domestic planes.
it is also completely legal for any law enforcement agency to seize ANY CASH or VALUABLES they suspect has ties to illegal activity.
they need zero evidence, they can just suspect foul play.
the rule is to seize it first and then make you prove it is your legit money from legit sources.
A few years ago a poker player had 10 or 15 thousand taken from him in an airport along with his rolex.
whatever story you give the authorities you'd better be able to back up with proof.
AUTHORITIES: "why do you have all this cash?"
YOU:"going to vegas"
AUTHORITIES:"where did the cash come from?"
YOU:"my bank"
AUTHORITIES:"we think you got this cash from illegal gambling, we are going to hold on to it, here is a number you can call to try to get it back"
bottom line, they can take that money and if they do you'll need to be able to back up any statement you make or your money will gone forever.
it is also completely legal for any law enforcement agency to seize ANY CASH or VALUABLES they suspect has ties to illegal activity.
they need zero evidence, they can just suspect foul play.
the rule is to seize it first and then make you prove it is your legit money from legit sources.
A few years ago a poker player had 10 or 15 thousand taken from him in an airport along with his rolex.
whatever story you give the authorities you'd better be able to back up with proof.
AUTHORITIES: "why do you have all this cash?"
YOU:"going to vegas"
AUTHORITIES:"where did the cash come from?"
YOU:"my bank"
AUTHORITIES:"we think you got this cash from illegal gambling, we are going to hold on to it, here is a number you can call to try to get it back"
bottom line, they can take that money and if they do you'll need to be able to back up any statement you make or your money will gone forever.
A significant portion of my work for non-profit public policy orgs during 1999-2008 helped me understand that in fact, both state (county) and federal law enforcement can seize any amount of cash for any reason they deem "suspicious".
BUDDYBOY's summation above is a tad rueful, but accurate.
The money can be seized and will only then be returned if the defendant can prove it was earned legitimately.
No court order is needed.
A tactful strategy is to securely package your cash within a tightly sealed box and FedEx (or other insured carriers) the box to your destination hotel where it will be awaiting you at check in
Yes, "ridiculous" would be an apt descriptor, but it is an accurate summation of the authority given to federal and state-level law enforcement within the USA thanks to a variety of forfeiture-related legislation passed at federal and state levels during (mostly) the period of late 1980s to year 2000. Additional language has been added into subsequent federal legislation passed following 9/11/01, allegedly to impede the flow of "covert terrorist funding".
As noted in my lead post above, I've been inactive working in jobs related to public drug policy since late 2008. So the link below might be a tad dusty, but it contains as concise a summary of our legal rights (or lack thereof) pertaining to federal and state-level forfeiture laws
http://fear.org/
http://fear.org/
how am I "suspect" of anything by having cash?
it would be like claiming that a black person is suspicious of stealing a car....because everyone knows that blacks cant have expensive cars (I am picturing this in a 1960's kind of thing)
its one thing for me to show up with lots of cash when I am going to gamble....anotehr diff thing if I am caught in a drug infested neighborhood right after they saw me talking to three drug dealers
To me suspicion means........you suspect something, not that you just say "it is" and it goes
it would be like claiming that a black person is suspicious of stealing a car....because everyone knows that blacks cant have expensive cars (I am picturing this in a 1960's kind of thing)
its one thing for me to show up with lots of cash when I am going to gamble....anotehr diff thing if I am caught in a drug infested neighborhood right after they saw me talking to three drug dealers
To me suspicion means........you suspect something, not that you just say "it is" and it goes
WOLFIE_CR wonders: how am I "suspect" of anything by having cash?
Bar: heh
WCR: it would be like claiming that a black person is suspicious of stealing a car....because everyone knows that blacks cant have expensive cars (I am picturing this in a 1960's kind of thing)
Bar: NOW you're starting to get it
WCR: its one thing for me to show up with lots of cash when I am going to gamble....anotehr diff thing if I am caught in a drug infested neighborhood right after they saw me talking to three drug dealers
Bar: No, it's pretty much the same thing to a cop(s) who know that a significant percentage of their agency's funding since the mid 1990s is founded on cash & property seizures.
A former fraternal colleauge of mine at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (http://leap.cc) - Joseph McNamara - tells the sad story of when he was in his last job working as police chief in San Jose CA.
He appeared before the city council to request more funding so that the city's couple hundred police cars could be updated. They told him, "Sorry, we don't have any more funding for you. If you want cash, you need to increase the amount of seizures from stopped motorists and other arrestees."
Bar: heh
WCR: it would be like claiming that a black person is suspicious of stealing a car....because everyone knows that blacks cant have expensive cars (I am picturing this in a 1960's kind of thing)
Bar: NOW you're starting to get it
WCR: its one thing for me to show up with lots of cash when I am going to gamble....anotehr diff thing if I am caught in a drug infested neighborhood right after they saw me talking to three drug dealers
Bar: No, it's pretty much the same thing to a cop(s) who know that a significant percentage of their agency's funding since the mid 1990s is founded on cash & property seizures.
A former fraternal colleauge of mine at Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (http://leap.cc) - Joseph McNamara - tells the sad story of when he was in his last job working as police chief in San Jose CA.
He appeared before the city council to request more funding so that the city's couple hundred police cars could be updated. They told him, "Sorry, we don't have any more funding for you. If you want cash, you need to increase the amount of seizures from stopped motorists and other arrestees."
You'll be fine I had a friend who recently had to empty his pockets which contained about 30k and was not even in an envelope and no one said a word to him. IMO it's a better idea to put it in an envelope and keep it inside your laptop bag. You will have no problems whatsoever
the one that got away
9-111.120
Net Equity Values
Whether a property should be seized must be documented during the pre-seizure process. The following guidelines set minimum net equity levels that generally must be met before federal forfeiture actions are instituted. The net equity values are intended to decrease the number of federal seizures, thereby enhancing efforts to improve case quality and to expedite processing of the cases we do initiate. The thresholds are also intended to encourage state and local law enforcement agencies to use state forfeiture laws. These thresholds are to be applied in direct and adoptive cases. In general, the minimum net equity requirements are:
Residential Property and vacant land —minimum net equity must be at least 20 percent of the appraised value, or $20,000, whichever is greater. As a general rule, the Department of Justice does not seize or adopt contaminated real properties. See Contaminated Real Property Policy, at USAM 9-111.400.
Vehicles—minimum net equity must be at least $5,000. The value of multiple vehicles seized at the same time may be aggregated for purposes of meeting the minimum net equity. If the person from whom the vehicle was taken was or is being criminally prosecuted by state or federal authorities for criminal activities related to the property and there is justification for a low value seizure (such as the vehicle being used to facilitate criminal activities), the minimum net equity is $2,000. The arrest of the person from whom the property is taken, for an offense related to the illegal use or acquisition of the property for which a forfeiture action may be brought, satisfies the condition of criminal prosecution. This restriction does not apply in the case of seizures by the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement of vehicles used in the smuggling of aliens or in the case of vehicles modified or customized to facilitate illegal activity.
Cash - minimum amount must be at least $5,000, unless the person from whom the cash was taken was criminally prosecuted or is being prosecuted by state or federal authorities for criminal activities related to the property, in which case, the amount must be at least $1,000.
Aircraft—minimum net equity must be at least $10,000. Note that failure to obtain the log books for the aircraft will reduce the aircraft's value significantly.
Vessels—minimum net equity must be at least $10,000.
All Other Personal Property—minimum net equity must be at least $1,000 in the aggregate. Exceptions from the minimum net equity requirement should not be made for any individual item if it has a value of less than $1,000. Such exceptions can be made if practical considerations support the seizure (e.g., 20 items of jewelry, each valued at $500, might be seized, as the total value of the items is $10,000 and the cost of storing 20 small items of jewelry is not excessive).
Heads of investigative agencies may continue to establish higher thresholds for seizures made by their agencies. If an investigative agency head establishes higher monetary thresholds than those set out in the directive, the Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section must be advised in writing of the change.
I like how they'll take 5 grand if you're not charged with a crime... but will go as low as 1k if you are.
Net Equity Values
Whether a property should be seized must be documented during the pre-seizure process. The following guidelines set minimum net equity levels that generally must be met before federal forfeiture actions are instituted. The net equity values are intended to decrease the number of federal seizures, thereby enhancing efforts to improve case quality and to expedite processing of the cases we do initiate. The thresholds are also intended to encourage state and local law enforcement agencies to use state forfeiture laws. These thresholds are to be applied in direct and adoptive cases. In general, the minimum net equity requirements are:
Residential Property and vacant land —minimum net equity must be at least 20 percent of the appraised value, or $20,000, whichever is greater. As a general rule, the Department of Justice does not seize or adopt contaminated real properties. See Contaminated Real Property Policy, at USAM 9-111.400.
Vehicles—minimum net equity must be at least $5,000. The value of multiple vehicles seized at the same time may be aggregated for purposes of meeting the minimum net equity. If the person from whom the vehicle was taken was or is being criminally prosecuted by state or federal authorities for criminal activities related to the property and there is justification for a low value seizure (such as the vehicle being used to facilitate criminal activities), the minimum net equity is $2,000. The arrest of the person from whom the property is taken, for an offense related to the illegal use or acquisition of the property for which a forfeiture action may be brought, satisfies the condition of criminal prosecution. This restriction does not apply in the case of seizures by the United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement of vehicles used in the smuggling of aliens or in the case of vehicles modified or customized to facilitate illegal activity.
Cash - minimum amount must be at least $5,000, unless the person from whom the cash was taken was criminally prosecuted or is being prosecuted by state or federal authorities for criminal activities related to the property, in which case, the amount must be at least $1,000.
Aircraft—minimum net equity must be at least $10,000. Note that failure to obtain the log books for the aircraft will reduce the aircraft's value significantly.
Vessels—minimum net equity must be at least $10,000.
All Other Personal Property—minimum net equity must be at least $1,000 in the aggregate. Exceptions from the minimum net equity requirement should not be made for any individual item if it has a value of less than $1,000. Such exceptions can be made if practical considerations support the seizure (e.g., 20 items of jewelry, each valued at $500, might be seized, as the total value of the items is $10,000 and the cost of storing 20 small items of jewelry is not excessive).
Heads of investigative agencies may continue to establish higher thresholds for seizures made by their agencies. If an investigative agency head establishes higher monetary thresholds than those set out in the directive, the Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section must be advised in writing of the change.
I like how they'll take 5 grand if you're not charged with a crime... but will go as low as 1k if you are.
The law says police can now seize cash if they suspect it is tied to a crime.
I have carried 5 figures through at least 20 and probably closer to 50 airports. I have never been hassled. I leave it in my laptop bag.
Just in case, I carry my last two W2s and 1040s. Assuming your W2 is multiple times the amount of cash it would be tough for a cop to argue you did something illegal. On the other hand if you are carrying $20k and made $30k last year, you may have a problem. Cops and security are trained to look for the abnormal.
I have carried 5 figures through at least 20 and probably closer to 50 airports. I have never been hassled. I leave it in my laptop bag.
Just in case, I carry my last two W2s and 1040s. Assuming your W2 is multiple times the amount of cash it would be tough for a cop to argue you did something illegal. On the other hand if you are carrying $20k and made $30k last year, you may have a problem. Cops and security are trained to look for the abnormal.
I concur. US authorities can also seize laptop computers now. BTW i was leaving
Canada earlier this year and was interogated at the airport gate while waiting my
flight, which was a first.
I was questioned, amongst other things, as to how much cash i had with me &
told the limit is 10K. Luckily i had just under that, including 9K in TCs. They include
them as cash.
Usually this Jack Bauer shit happens when i return. They make you wait for up
to an hour or two, then you spend the same again as they look through every
item in your suitcases, black books, diaries & all your shit, asking enough
questions so that they know your entire life story. They give the choice of me
either waiting while they read all my stuff, or photocopy it so they can read it later.
Choosing the latter i had to sign a paper giving them permission to do so. Maybe
i should have called their bluff on that & called my lawyer, eh?
